Mahler: The Complete Symphonies

I wasn't aware that plebian masses of ticketholders ever flooded the concert halls. Except, like, a couple centuries ago with opera, except back then, people didn't go to the opera to watch the opera. And by the way, the modern composers did just fine in terms of popularity.

Exactly the point.

Also, I'd venture to say that the modern composers are no where near as popular as some of the earlier romantic or classical composers. Handel was insanely popular in England during his lifetime, same with Pagninni and Liszt in their times, same with Schubert, Schuman, Tchaikovsky, and especially Wagner and many others. The public was enamored with these composers because they were the figureheads of music. Today's figureheads are Britney Spears, Bon Jovi, and 50 cent, among others. I doubt that John Cage or John Adams, or even John Williams has received the popularity of 50 cent, let alone Paganini.

Liszt - the first rock star...

Exactly the point.

What?

Those composers you mentioned weren't really popular among the public, really. They werepopular among the musical community, a completely different matter. Paganini was primarily famous as a performer. Composers like Liszt and Schumann were most well-known for their criticism and support for other composers (although Liszt was also pretty popular among the ladies, I hear). Wikipedia describes Schubert like this: "While Schubert had a close circle of friends and associates who admired his work (amongst them the prominent singer Johann Michael Vogl), wide appreciation of his music during his lifetime was limited at best. He was never able to secure adequate permanent employment, and for most of his career he relied on the support of friends and family. He made some money from published works, and occasionally gave private musical instruction. In the last year of his life he began to receive wider acclaim." Tchaikovsky and Wagner also mostly achieved acclaim within the musical community, with only marginal popularity elsewhere. Really, there were no uniting musical figureheads before the past 60-or-so years, although folk and popular music were probably still the most popular kinds of music. Plus, almost any pre-Romantic (and non-opera) composer mostly had an audience of nobles, especially their patrons.

On the other hand, today, people listen to more classical music of any era than ever before. Contemporary music festivals like Donaueschingen are doing quite well. I'm not saying classical music is as popular as rock or pop, but it's certainly not unpopular. By the way, if we're speaking of "today's figureheads", you should probably be aware that Schoenberg, Webern, and Boulez (well, his most famous period) are from, like, half-a-century (or more) ago.

And, uh, who still listens to Bon Jovi? :P

I wasn't aware that plebian masses of ticketholders ever flooded the concert halls. Except, like, a couple centuries ago with opera, except back then, people didn't go to the opera to watch the opera. And by the way, the modern composers did just fine in terms of popularity.

There's a lot of 'context' missing here that needs to be clarified.

First and foremost, people still went to the opera to 'see opera' pre-Bayreuth. Sure, there were 'box seats' with curtains where some upper class highmarks would bring in prostitutes and do dirty things. That's nowhere close to 'nobody went to the opera to watch opera' junk you're spewing. All Wagner did was return complete focus to the artform as it was being performed... from everyone.

And it doesn't matter what we call the audience... like when The Rite of Spring premiered and the audience rioted, there are instances where the general public has been displeased with spending money on performances of music that did not meet their expectations. Does that mean Stravinsky's music shouldn't be programmed? Of course not. Should the venue have been different? Maybe.

The point being... what we learned from all this is that there is an aesthetic variety now emerging when it comes to the 'audience', and it took some time for the idea of 'venue' to catch up to the performance aspect. And this is never more the case than today. We have 'new music' concerts, 'electronic music' festivals, 'classical concerts', and a multitude of other venues available today. People can follow their interests to the ends of the internet until they find what they want. The concept of 'the audience' has changed quite a bit, hasn't it? But the modern composers didn't exactly 'do just fine' from the start... there were plenty, PLENTY of empty seats and upset patrons before the audience began to 'catch on' to how music performances were beginning to diverge.

After all, going to a contemporary, 'new music' concert and hearing a Beethoven or Mozart Symphony is pretty rare now (not to say it doesn't happen, it's just not 'typical' today). It's just as uncommon to see a classical music concert with works from Handel, Bach, Brahms, etc include an aleatoric work from John Cage. The variety of aesthetics available now has led to a different audience dynamic entirely, so it's really not fair to say, "Blame the audience" or "Blame the music" for the decline in classical music... it's just change and adaptation to change... and sometimes change doesn't happen as quickly as we would like it to.

Also, I'd venture to say that the modern composers are no where near as popular as some of the earlier romantic or classical composers.

Depends on your definition of popular. If you're talking the raw sum amount of people that would be false since there are more educated and culturally aware people now than there were in the tiny little place called Europe back in the 18th and 19th centuries.

The public was enamored with these composers because they were the figureheads of music. Today's figureheads are Britney Spears, Bon Jovi, and 50 cent, among others. I doubt that John Cage or John Adams, or even John Williams has received the popularity of 50 cent, let alone Paganini.

I have to ask if you have absolute any idea what you're talking about. Do you? I'm not going to debate the sheer ignorance of this post, other people who are like me have already seen it and commenced with yelling at you...but are you seriously that ignorant of modern and relevant society? Come on man, watch some news and get your head out of the Mahler-Bernstein stuff for a couple minutes wontcha :)

the majority of people didn't understand and didn't want to hear, things like Schoenberg, Weber, Boulez, etc.

I know what you mean, Carl Maria wrote some pretty challenging music.