Mag and Nunc

Hey all,

I joined this site a while back but I've yet to post anything until now. So, for your consideration is a setting of the Magnificat and Nunc Dimittis that I finished recently for the choir that I sing in.

About the piece: In writing this, I tried to find a balance between sections that are harmonically interesting (to me, at least) and material that is fairly straight forward. It will be performed early next month so the choir doesn't have a whole lot of time to work on it.

I'm not much of a contrapuntalist, so I tried to vary the texture by having some unison parts and soli sections by the different voices. Any and all feedback is welcome. Cheers!

FMcG

mp3 can be found on my myspace page - bottom of the list

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Mag and Nunc 09.pdf

Overall it was very nice. you use some unique harmonies and movements and make it all work quite well. There are a few specific points I'd like to mention.

Measures 6-7: I'm not too fond of the abrupt cut off in the alto and the long farmata in the accompaniment. I would sustain the voice line a little (maybe a tie to a half note in M 7?) and make the farmata whole note a dotted half with a quarter rest before the tempo change. Thats just my oppinion though.

Measures 14-15: Once again the cut off was to much for me. I would make "for" a dotted half (starting at the beginning of the measure) with a breath just before it, but once again, thats just me.

Measure 61: Shouldnt "fore fathers" be singular? "Our fore father abraham"

The Nunc Dimittis section through measure 32 was excellent. It sounded great and it was a very nice contrast from the rest of the piece.

The ending seemed a little off to me. Personally I would have the saprano on a C on the final chord. I would also have the final measure of accomaniment overlap (as a second layer) on measure 48.

Those are just a few of my oppinions. Hope some of it helped. Once again, great job. I look forward to hearing more of your work.

Pianoman,

Thanks for the feedback. It is much appreciated.

I had previously thought about some of what you said concerning the duration of those alto notes. I think I was ambivelent so I just went with the quarter note since it's a slow enough tempo. We'll see how it goes - rehearsal begins tomorrow, so we'll see if I feel like making any adjustments after hearing it for real.

Forefathers plural is correct. I had to doublecheck just now though - I was freaking out for a second! The text is: "...as He promised to our forefathers, Abraham and his seed forever." It's a misleading comma, I guess. Good eye, though!

I chose to end that last chord with the sopranos on the third because I like the leap of a 6th from their previous note, plus it fits the upward movement from the last two Amens. Starting on the 5th, then to 6, 7, 9, and finally resting on the third. Personal preference, I suppose.

Good call on the ending. I'm still kind of wondering about that. The only reason why I'm keeping it like that for now is that up until that measure, both Gloria Patri sections are essentially identical, but those last piano notes are from the opening section. Hopefully someone in the audience will remember that part and go, "Oh yeah, that bit." We'll see. Again, I might change my mind after we start rehearsing.

Thanks again for your comments! Cheers.

Fingers-

Really nice pieces! I enjoyed them a lot.

One thing that I think is a strength of both pieces is the text-setting. You seem to have a good grasp of how to set text to a musical line while accenting the correct syllables and words. Great job with that!

Also, I am especially fond of the harmonic language. I am a big fan of triads and triadic harmonies progressing in unconventional ways, which these pieces do a great job of.

One thing I wonder about is the last section of the Nunc Dimittis (where you recall the ending of the Magnificat). I think the ending of the Magnificat works well, but maybe when you end the Nunc Dimittis, you could embellish the piano accompaniment a little bit. I realize you might be worried about the audience not recognizing it if you embellish it (I worry about that too!), but I think that as long as you keep the melodic structure intact and retain the basic harmonic progression, it won't be a problem. (Of course, you can always try it both ways in rehearsal if you want.)

Either way, whether you decide to make that change or not, I really enjoyed the two pieces! Keep it up.

Hornet

Thanks, Hornet! In addition to studying trumpet and playing bass in the pop music world, I've been singing hymns my whole life, and more recently, singing in a choir. I think by now, knowing which syllables to emphasize is second nature. I'm glad you caught that.

Yes, I tried to make the harmonic content of this piece intriguing but also comprehendable enough for our (mostly amateur) choir to learn in four rehearsals.

The main reason for keeping the Gloria Patri sections identical is just historical precedent. All of the Mag and Nuncs that I've ever seen or sung have identical endings, although I like your idea of altering the accompaniment. That might be worth looking into if I do a revision or a different setting of the same text some day.

Thanks again for your comments and I'll be sure to post my setting of that Whitman poem in the next week. Looking forward to hearing more of your work as well. Cheers!

FMcG

I agree that the ending chord sounds a little bit off, but I would have the notes stay the same as in the previous chord. I think the jump up a sixth doesn't work very well with the parallel fifths which have been going on in the accompaniment because you're suddenly emphasizing the third of that last chord by putting it up so high. It also ends up sounding too tonal, if you know what I mean.

Thanks for the comments, deathraider. I think I will move that ending piano chord back a couple beats when I do some revisions.

I think the jump up a sixth doesn't work very well with the parallel fifths which have been going on in the accompaniment because you're suddenly emphasizing the third of that last chord by putting it up so high. It also ends up sounding too tonal, if you know what I mean.

I guess it's just a personal preference. The whole piece is very tonal so I don't think it's too out of place. Plus, it's meant to be performed at a church and it's almost always a good idea to end on a major chord in that case. :) Thanks again for the input!

Cheers,

FMcG

Well, I don't mean that it's atonal, but it's not traditional tonality and voice leading, which is what I meant. I would refer to it as "modal" rather than "tonal". Plus, the chord before (on the "a" of "amen") is a major chord, is it not?

Anyway, it's definitely fine if you keep it the way you have it, I just think it makes a little more sense with everything going on to have the first and fifth of the chord emphasized in the final chord rather than the first and third.

Thanks for the comments, deathraider. I think I will move that ending piano chord back a couple beats when I do some revisions.

I guess it's just a personal preference. The whole piece is very tonal so I don't think it's too out of place. Plus, it's meant to be performed at a church and it's almost always a good idea to end on a major chord in that case. :) Thanks again for the input!

Cheers,

FMcG

I think he was suggesting that the 3rd of the chord is too emphasized which isn

I think he was suggesting that the 3rd of the chord is too emphasized which isn

Hmm... I'm tempted to defend my choice of voice leading/mixture of practices/appropriateness for church at length but I don't want to seem like a dick.

Of course, if anyone wants me to be a dick, I can certainly try! :toothygrin:

Cheers to all,

FMcG

Haha, thats some pretty impressive restraint. Of course, you have the right to believe what ever voice leading theories you want :P

;)

I think he was suggesting that the 3rd of the chord is too emphasized which isn’t good voice leading. The parallel 5ths is also bad voice leading which, especially in church music, isn’t commonly acceptable. What you have to ask yourself is do you want it to sound good to you or to be common practice that will be pleasing to everyone else’s ear? I think one of the hardest things about composition is learning to be humble :thumbsup:

Actually that's not what I was saying at all. :P I actually really like the parallel fifths in the accompaniment, and they're one of my favorite things about the piece. Plus, parallel fifths was where it was at for a long time in ancient music. All I was saying is because he was emphasizing perfect fifths for so long, it seemed a little abrupt to suddenly emphasize the M3 between the outer voices in that chord; it has nothing to do with voice leading. Anyways, as has already been said, it is a matter of personal opinion.

Actually that's not what I was saying at all. :P I actually really like the parallel fifths in the accompaniment, and they're one of my favorite things about the piece. Plus, parallel fifths was where it was at for a long time in ancient music. All I was saying is because he was emphasizing perfect fifths for so long, it seemed a little abrupt to suddenly emphasize the M3 between the outer voices in that chord; it has nothing to do with voice leading. Anyways, as has already been said, it is a matter of personal opinion.

Okay, yeah, I was going entirely off what I THOUGHT you were saying...I just looked back at the score and, yes, the voice leading is correct, which would in fact make it all a matter of opinion...For some reason I was thinking the 3rd was doubled but I was wrong...my bad :)

I do still hold that the structure of the last chord isnt common practice though. Church music usually ends very cadencially and having the sapronos on a 3rd takes some of that away.

Ahh, everybody wins!

This piece is very representative of me (at least right now) in that it's a mix of traditional stuff and a few moments of wackiness. The ending just happens to be not very traditional. Also, in comparison to some of the modern church music that I've sung, this is very tame. Have a good one, guys!

FMcG