Christmas Mass

I am currently working on a full scale mass for christmas - just a personal project, I get immense enjoyment out of composing large choral works (or attempting to lol).

Kyrie

I wanted to portray as best I can the ideas of the text itself - as simple as the text is. I feel that I reached this and surpassed it for this movement. The sections of the movement are broken up thusly:

Kyrie

Eleison - fugal section

Christe - solo soprano

Eleison - choral infusion into the Christe Section.

Kyrie

Eleison - fugal section

Close

The movement lasts about 4 mins. Please feel free to comment with critique. I'll consolidate this thread to include the other movements once they are completed - I'd put this in incomplete works but each movement is individual so I'll just post once finished!

Gloria

The Gloria was rather difficult to set, I must say, as my intention here is to write a Christmas Mass. I wanted to do it in a manner that would befit the particular holiday itself. The birth of the christ child, in my belief, was a very solemn event and not a bombastic fanfare that rattles the bones of all that hear. That said, the text itself varies between two to three separate biblical portions - only 1 of which is from the story of the birth of christ. So, my idea was to set the Gloria appropriately to my own view points of textual meaning. The whole movement was composed based on 3 very simple motifs (1. 1st Violin measure 2, 2. 1st Flute mm. 6-7, 3. measure 18 rhythm). I'm rather unsure as to my own thoughts on this movement. Would love opinions.

edit: reuploaded attachments.

kyrie.mp3

Kyrie.pdf

Gloria.pdf

gloria.mp3

Start with the Kyrie

Strengths - Very well lineated engaging form. Good use of suspensions and anticipations in the first page or so. You show a good understanding of vocal ranges and what dynamic levels they can control - the bass syncopations that occur once in awhile will add excitement.

Weakness - The canonic spinning out is not handled well sometimes as it goes off in a stylistic direction that is never really explored (except we do a hear a recap but that is not a convincing "exploration") and I am afraid some of it may be drowned by the voices. Harmonically static - a bit too a minor throughout - your material demands some harmonic adventure - even if you LOVE Mozart's Requiem (the opening reminds me a little bit of it). Hard to comment specifically on the vocal writing due to midi. From the score it seems fastiduously done and attentive to their capabilities but a bit too safe with a heavy reliance on all or almost all voices going along. Not such a bad thing if you had another parameter that was more adventuresome but with the orchestral forces being used in full quite often this piece could get a tiring in live performance.

Overall I am being a little picky only because I think you can do even better than this.

Comment on the gloria later

I enjoyed listening to this piece, but I feel like there was not enough variation throughout either movement. I would have liked to hear a little more development. Also, I feel that this has been done before...nothing "new" was given to the audience.

I enjoyed listening to this piece, but I feel like there was not enough variation throughout either movement. I would have liked to hear a little more development. Also, I feel that this has been done before...nothing "new" was given to the audience.

Well, my goal wasn't to develop the ideas necessarily - in fact, that was least in my goals for either piece. Also, not exactly sure what you mean by variation. Do you mean contrast? Or do you mean thematic variation? On the last note, what new can one give an audience these days? Aside from dousing each instrument in lighter fluid and setting it ablaze - there's pretty much little one can do to create new, adventurous work - therefore, I'm much more interested in writing music - I'll save the experimentation for others. Thanks for giving my work your time, its much appreciated! And i'm glad you enjoyed listening to it.

Also, I might add, one of my goals is to take modern technique and merge it within the traditional framework. Both these movements do contain elements that are modern individually but merge in quite well within practice.

Edited November 21, 200916 yr by jawoodruff

I meant thematic variation. Actually, I think some contrast would work well in this piece too!

And about 'something new'...I'm not saying you have to go crazy avant-garde-play-tuba-and-piccolo-at-the-same-time-while-juggling-flaming-chainsaws-blindfolded-on-a-Disney-cruise, but take that traditional framework you employed and make it your own. Throw your own voice in your writing, because, while this did sound very nice, it was just a little too generic for me.

I meant thematic variation. Actually, I think some contrast would work well in this piece too!

And about 'something new'...I'm not saying you have to go crazy avant-garde-play-tuba-and-piccolo-at-the-same-time-while-juggling-flaming-chainsaws-blindfolded-on-a-Disney-cruise, but take that traditional framework you employed and make it your own. Throw your own voice in your writing, because, while this did sound very nice, it was just a little too generic for me.

Well, I have been composing now for at least (and this is a conservative estimate) 10 years. I've studied a great deal of music, composed a great deal of music, and have gone through one phase already and am well into another phase. While my music may not seem personal to some, to me it is very personal. If you peer over my works just on this site, you will clearly see that this is my own personal sound - albeit, given time this sound will verge in another direction on its own (as it has done in the past).

The thematic variation is there if you look into it. I don't like to just put things up in peoples faces and expect them to get it on first listen. I like to make my listeners listen more to the work and gleam more each and every listen - as I think a lot of composers do. My composition teacher in college never would let me do otherwise, lol. Both movements do have contrast, just in different ways. The Kyrie, in fact, has a B section that is quite removed from the A section - though based on the same 'germ'. The Gloria, I worked a little different. The themes and motives used in it are quite contrasting in and of themselves. The 'Gloria' theme, for instance, is no where near the brevity of the opening theme presented in the woodwinds. And the rhythmic theme used throughout is no where near the 'Gloria' theme. I'll look over it though and see if I can tinker it some more to make these contrasts more noticeable to the listener. Again, I appreciate your critique. It's nice to get a good conversation going about these sorts of things - it really helps to showcase how one composes and the variances in compositional taste among composers.

This thread has gone in a direction that I have always found interesting.

On the one hand, when someone compares our music to one of the greats, such as Mozart, Beethoven, etc, we should feel very honored and humbled at the same time. But on the other hand, it means our music is not original and/or modern/cutting edge material.

These pieces are IMO composed in an older style that would depict a Mass. Taken from that viewpoint, they are very well done and you should be happy with the work.

Would they work better if, say the 1st violinist got up and put lighter fluid on his instrument, lit it up and then played it as long as he could before burning himself. That would hardly be appropriate for a mass, but would definitely get everyone's attention.

I guess what I am saying is that some types of music need to be kept in the older style of things. Some music deos not need to be updated to modern times.

Nice work

Ron

Dear Mr. Woodruff:

First let me say that I have enjoyed listening to practically everything you've contributed to this forum lately. OK, maybe one or two weren't to my liking, but overall your batting average is quite high with me. These two pieces for a Christmas Mass are no exception. I like them both very much. I think I might quibble a bit on your interpretation of the meaning of the Gloria, but in the end it's your line of thought and feeling for your composition.

My big question though for you is why the transposition of the text in the Gloria. Gloria in excelsis Deo is to be followed by et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis. Not Laudamus te.... Why make the change that you did? Just curious, that's all.

And I'll second Ron's thoughts on the appropriateness of styles.

Sincerely,

Brian Sagraves

Dear Mr. Woodruff:

First let me say that I have enjoyed listening to practically everything you've contributed to this forum lately. OK, maybe one or two weren't to my liking, but overall your batting average is quite high with me. These two pieces for a Christmas Mass are no exception. I like them both very much. I think I might quibble a bit on your interpretation of the meaning of the Gloria, but in the end it's your line of thought and feeling for your composition.

My big question though for you is why the transposition of the text in the Gloria. Gloria in excelsis Deo is to be followed by et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis. Not Laudamus te.... Why make the change that you did? Just curious, that's all.

And I'll second Ron's thoughts on the appropriateness of styles.

Sincerely,

Brian Sagraves

The reason for the change is largely due to the overall structure of the movement. From the beginning I used the material that became the Laudamus Te. The juxatoposition of the two showcases, historically, the fact that the texts are from different portions of the bible (Gloria being from the nativity and the Laudamus te being from a different book altogether). I hope that explains it and I'm glad you enjoyed the piece.

To date, I have not listened but to the Kyrie of your Mass and am left with ambiguous feelings: I cannot say I am a fan of it, yet I cannot say I do not like it. I found myself looking at the score and listening to your piece yesterday as well as today, hence it must have something which fascinates me, something I have not discovered for myself.

I think the remark made previously is true: the intro echoes the Requiem by Mozart, but hence ... do not we all echo somebody? are not we all influenced by the masters we love?

What strikes/fascinates me is the title in combination with the music: you call this a Christmas Mass yet your music sounds so ... mournfull. Christmas is supposed to be a feast of joy: Christ is born, Alleluja. One only has to listen to the numerous Hodie, Christus natus est, yet... your music - although warm - is sad... it is nearly as if you are regretting that Christ is born as he is bound to undergo the same tortures once more....

Well, the Kyrie was not intended to be mournful. The sections of the Kyrie reflect the text as a whole. The opening section, which many here say reminds them of Mozart (though, I don't hear it to be honest), is on the Kyrie portion of the text. From my notes on the subject while composing:

The Kyrie is both a mystical incantation, invoking the gods to have mercy on the sayer, and a cry for compassion from god. Lord Have Mercy! Christ Have Mercy! Lord Have Mercy! Musically, the text itself is one that offers the greatest lucidity in setting due to the brevity of the text AND greatest simplicity in variation of musical possibilities. I have chosen to set the text the following manner: the opening suspension series sets the word Kyrie - Lord! The evocation here is to, in humility, call for the lord. The suspension represents the prostration and humility of calling for such a higher entity. The Eleision portion of the text is set to a full orchestral/choral fugato. The key of A Major is used for the simplistic Christe. My goal with this section was to musically showcase the simplicity of christs message. Sparse instrumentation is used as is a very precise thematic material. The material comes from the Kyrie and Eleison sections. The section ends with a downward arpeggio. And then a return to the original material for the conclusion of the movement. .............

As for the overall feel of the Christmas Mass, yes, I agree that it should be joyful. However, not every movement out of a work should be in that manner. Even in Handel's Messiah you have music that is mournful - yet we play that every year at Christmas!