Thoughts of Winter

Hello, I wrote this piece a couple months back (when it wasn't winter) and at the time I thought it would be a "cool" project to start. Well at first I stuck with the theme but I kinda wondered off a little bit but I think I wrapped it up quite nicely at the end. Its shown in concert pitch so some of the voices my not be where they're supposed to be. I'm still trying to get use to the new site so if something is not quite right I apologize in advance. =)

Thoughts of Winter

Cool! <no pun intended, hehe>

Okay, so are you going to get it performed anytime soon, maybe this March or maybe next Fall/Winter some time?

If so, I have some comments about the score. Percussion parts need some attention from you. You have several points where I hear the part playing but I don't see where you've indicated what instrument should be playing that part on the score. Suspended Cymbals need more time during the roll to build up the vibrations to give you that nice, quality sound of overtones you hear in the electronic sounds you hear. If you want that sound, consider giving them a full four beats to build up that roll for that -big- sound you want.

I'm not entirely positive, but I'm reasonably sure your French Horn parts are in the Trumpet's place on the score. The traditional order of instruments in the Orchestral score has French Horns above Trumpets, unlike Concert Band scores that order the French Horns below the Trumpets the way you have them. Is this a huge problem?? For me, no. Some Orchestra directors might comment on that, though. You can fix it and conform to what directors expect or you can be like me and tell them, "It's my score, I'll write it how I want to write it. I have my reasons." Of course, you want to say it more respectfully than that, obviously.

I really dig the Chimes and the use of the Mallets. I would suggest that where you have Vibes playing double stops to indicate two players or reduce it to one octave, the other, or a mix of the two (which I think would sound terrific). I also have a comment about the form, because you start with this energetic opening, it gets me all pumped up and excited (yadda, yadda), then you slow the pace and give me something solemn and pure. Then you start up that energetic opening again and then go back to the solemn stuff before restating the opening and ending the piece. This, for me, doesn't work. I think that ostinato (the repeated eighth-note pattern) is what might be at fault, and it could just be the midi. Just keep in mind that this pattern brings back that energy and it might make more sense to take out the pattern itself and do something else with those pitches (like sustained chord progressions, imitative chords that shift from register to register or one family of instruments to the next, etc.).

Your orchestration is great in the beginning. It's a little bland though (not much, just a little). I hear the same instruments playing the same typical ideas throughout the whole piece. One suggestion might be to divy up the orchestration a little more, hand over some of the ideas to those instruments that you're leaving out just to imagine different kinds of sound. Hey, if you don't like what you hear, you can always leave it as is and move on. This is merely a suggestion, not so much a criticism.

Good job. I hope you get it performed and post the recording.

I agree---the middle part is very beautiful, but it doesn't seem to quite fit with the rest. However, I think that the beginning and end parts are some of the most exciting pieces of music I have heard in a while kudos!!!

I agree with a lot of what Anti said above, however, I am going to focus solely on the orchestration and structure of the overall piece. Your piece is very vibrant - from start to finish... a lot of life! With this large orchestra at your disposal, you can really make the ideas in this piece shine. I notice through out your piece that you pay little attention to the overall sound mass of a particular orchestral section. For instance, one good example is mm. 70 - 79. Here you have flutes, oboes, and clarinetts playing mf. You introduce the brass however at f and the trumpets you introduce at ff. Given you have 3 trumpets blasting in so loud, the wind accompaniment patter would barely be audible. And the balance there against ALL of the brass would be quite off tilt as well (2 - 3 wind for every 1 brass!). The poor violins in the same measure are scored a p. Which would make the resonance tone there completely inaudible. Also, I notice throughout the string parts that you not once indicated whether these passages are divisi - therefore, am I (a string player) to assume that you want these to be double stopped? Measure 158: you have the second violins either divisi or doublestopping yet you have the celli with nothing. I would move the lower note of the 2nd violin line to give them some room to play. Doesn't seem a need there to create a divisi or doublestop for the 2nd violins there. The biggest problems with your orchestration are first: you don't seem to orchestrate your dynamics in good ways. This is a mistake that many, including myself, have made. It was stressed on me not to long ago the importance of this! and second: some of your wind lines suffer due to this. Many are unsupported and would not be audible against such a heavy brass track. My other orchestrational complaint is in how you overall set up your score. There is a common set up for scores, and you would be wise to utilize it! Some conductors, as I believe Anti said above, wouldn't even approach a score set up like this!

As far as structure goes, I feel you have good ideas here. And for the most part you develop them well. The middle section, as they've said above doesn't quite seem to blend in with your overall ethic this piece. Perhaps you could utilize some of your thematic material to tie this in better. I do see glimpses of earlier material being reworked in a new way... but it just doesn't meld.

I hope my orchestrational critique wasn't to harsh. I feel you have a strong piece here AND your orchestration needs to suit that! Keep composing and I look forward to hearing more works of yours!

Well I think you are on a very good way. The others says so much things so I just say well done. Of course there are errors like in measure 85 when the 3/4. Horn plays higher than the first..but you really tooke care of the look of your score ( :thumbsup:) and you used divisi parts ( :thumbsup: )(believe me its a rare thing on this site :))..so if you pay attantion what the others said you wont have any problem in the future.

Cool! <no pun intended, hehe>

Okay, so are you going to get it performed anytime soon, maybe this March or maybe next Fall/Winter some time?

If so, I have some comments about the score. Percussion parts need some attention from you. You have several points where I hear the part playing but I don't see where you've indicated what instrument should be playing that part on the score. Suspended Cymbals need more time during the roll to build up the vibrations to give you that nice, quality sound of overtones you hear in the electronic sounds you hear. If you want that sound, consider giving them a full four beats to build up that roll for that -big- sound you want.

I'm not entirely positive, but I'm reasonably sure your French Horn parts are in the Trumpet's place on the score. The traditional order of instruments in the Orchestral score has French Horns above Trumpets, unlike Concert Band scores that order the French Horns below the Trumpets the way you have them. Is this a huge problem?? For me, no. Some Orchestra directors might comment on that, though. You can fix it and conform to what directors expect or you can be like me and tell them, "It's my score, I'll write it how I want to write it. I have my reasons." Of course, you want to say it more respectfully than that, obviously.

I really dig the Chimes and the use of the Mallets. I would suggest that where you have Vibes playing double stops to indicate two players or reduce it to one octave, the other, or a mix of the two (which I think would sound terrific). I also have a comment about the form, because you start with this energetic opening, it gets me all pumped up and excited (yadda, yadda), then you slow the pace and give me something solemn and pure. Then you start up that energetic opening again and then go back to the solemn stuff before restating the opening and ending the piece. This, for me, doesn't work. I think that ostinato (the repeated eighth-note pattern) is what might be at fault, and it could just be the midi. Just keep in mind that this pattern brings back that energy and it might make more sense to take out the pattern itself and do something else with those pitches (like sustained chord progressions, imitative chords that shift from register to register or one family of instruments to the next, etc.).

Your orchestration is great in the beginning. It's a little bland though (not much, just a little). I hear the same instruments playing the same typical ideas throughout the whole piece. One suggestion might be to divy up the orchestration a little more, hand over some of the ideas to those instruments that you're leaving out just to imagine different kinds of sound. Hey, if you don't like what you hear, you can always leave it as is and move on. This is merely a suggestion, not so much a criticism.

Good job. I hope you get it performed and post the recording.

Hey thanks for your advise!

Unfortunately though I am not getting this performed anytime soon; I just wrote it for the hell of it and didn't think anything of it at the time ha. Also I wouldn't know who to go to if I had wanted to get it played. Anyway, you have a lot of interesting comments to say! I did not know that it was so important to have the horns on top and the trumpets on bottom. Like you mentioned, I have seen it written both ways but I didn't know one way was for concert band and the other for orchestra. I just thought the composer wrote it however he felt that day.

About the orchestration, I totally agree. I have not had alot of training or anything in this area; hopefully this will change soon but until then I'm going to have to stick to what I've got ha.

Thank you for you comments!

I agree---the middle part is very beautiful, but it doesn't seem to quite fit with the rest. However, I think that the beginning and end parts are some of the most exciting pieces of music I have heard in a while <img src="http://network.youngcomposers.com/elgg/ipb/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif" alt=":D" /> kudos!!!

Why thank you very much! Yeah I'm not sure what's going on with the middle section. While I was writting it it seemed like a good idea, but by the time I finished and realized it didn't quite fit... the very thought of this piece made me wanna cry haha

I jumped when I pushed "Play" on the piece: it starts off very vibrantly! This music obviously doesn't express MY thoughts of winter, because then it'd be a funeral dirge: I HATE WINTER.

That aside, this is incredible work: I think your orchestration is flawless, and I'm quite jealous: I never have been able to make it flow as well as this in my attempts, at least not in my opinion. I don't care if you've not had training, you're definitely quite good at it: maybe only a few kinks to work out, but nothing major, surely. But, what Anti said about "it gets me all pumped up and excited (yadda, yadda), then you slow the pace and give me something solemn and pure. Then you start up that energetic opening again and then go back to the solemn stuff before restating the opening and ending the piece. This, for me, doesn't work." I think it's true: perhaps just a little revision, but nothing major, to make this a little more "followable". But regardless, this is one of my favorites I've heard on this site, no joke! Keep up the good work!

I agree with a lot of what Anti said above, however, I am going to focus solely on the orchestration and structure of the overall piece. Your piece is very vibrant - from start to finish... a lot of life! With this large orchestra at your disposal, you can really make the ideas in this piece shine. I notice through out your piece that you pay little attention to the overall sound mass of a particular orchestral section. For instance, one good example is mm. 70 - 79. Here you have flutes, oboes, and clarinetts playing mf. You introduce the brass however at f and the trumpets you introduce at ff. Given you have 3 trumpets blasting in so loud, the wind accompaniment patter would barely be audible. And the balance there against ALL of the brass would be quite off tilt as well (2 - 3 wind for every 1 brass!). The poor violins in the same measure are scored a p. Which would make the resonance tone there completely inaudible. Also, I notice throughout the string parts that you not once indicated whether these passages are divisi - therefore, am I (a string player) to assume that you want these to be double stopped? Measure 158: you have the second violins either divisi or doublestopping yet you have the celli with nothing. I would move the lower note of the 2nd violin line to give them some room to play. Doesn't seem a need there to create a divisi or doublestop for the 2nd violins there. The biggest problems with your orchestration are first: you don't seem to orchestrate your dynamics in good ways. This is a mistake that many, including myself, have made. It was stressed on me not to long ago the importance of this! and second: some of your wind lines suffer due to this. Many are unsupported and would not be audible against such a heavy brass track. My other orchestrational complaint is in how you overall set up your score. There is a common set up for scores, and you would be wise to utilize it! Some conductors, as I believe Anti said above, wouldn't even approach a score set up like this!

As far as structure goes, I feel you have good ideas here. And for the most part you develop them well. The middle section, as they've said above doesn't quite seem to blend in with your overall ethic this piece. Perhaps you could utilize some of your thematic material to tie this in better. I do see glimpses of earlier material being reworked in a new way... but it just doesn't meld.

I hope my orchestrational critique wasn't to harsh. I feel you have a strong piece here AND your orchestration needs to suit that! Keep composing and I look forward to hearing more works of yours!

Hey thanks for your comments!

The dynamics of the piece are quite unreliable aren't they haha. To tell you the truth, all I did was listen to the midi and decide what was too loud or what needed to be softer and write the "appropriate" dynamic for the midi. It never occured to me that if a real orchestra was to try to play this that the softer instruments might not get a chance to be heard.

As far as the string parts go, no I didn't want any section of this piece to be played double stopped. Everthing should be played as a divisi.

Thanks for all of your help!

Well I think you are on a very good way. The others says so much things so I just say well done. Of course there are errors like in measure 85 when the 3/4. Horn plays higher than the first..but you really tooke care of the look of your score ( :thumbsup:) and you used divisi parts ( :thumbsup: )(believe me its a rare thing on this site :))..so if you pay attantion what the others said you wont have any problem in the future.

Thanks for your comment!

In measure 85? Oh I see what you're saying... no no there is an 8vb under the 3/4 horns. The 3/4 horns aren't screaming right there haha. I think measure 85 and where that section happens later in the piece are the only spots that have something like that.

I jumped when I pushed "Play" on the piece: it starts off very vibrantly! This music obviously doesn't express MY thoughts of winter, because then it'd be a funeral dirge: I HATE WINTER.

That aside, this is incredible work: I think your orchestration is flawless, and I'm quite jealous: I never have been able to make it flow as well as this in my attempts, at least not in my opinion. I don't care if you've not had training, you're definitely quite good at it: maybe only a few kinks to work out, but nothing major, surely. But, what Anti said about "it gets me all pumped up and excited (yadda, yadda), then you slow the pace and give me something solemn and pure. Then you start up that energetic opening again and then go back to the solemn stuff before restating the opening and ending the piece. This, for me, doesn't work." I think it's true: perhaps just a little revision, but nothing major, to make this a little more "followable". But regardless, this is one of my favorites I've heard on this site, no joke! Keep up the good work! <img src="http://network.youngcomposers.com/elgg/ipb/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif" alt=":)" />

Oh no!! I thought everybody lovved winter... Hmm I guess it depends on where you live; In the part of Texas I live in it's hot ALL the time so we welcome winter whenever it gets here haha.

That crazy middle section has been giving everybody hell haha. I will certianly rework the middle section and see if I can come up with something different. But I make no promises.

Thank you very much for your kind comment!

I'm really glad you enjoyed it!