Work-in-progress!

Unlike apparently everyone else here, I haven't finished a piece in a very long time, so I don't really have anything recent to post except for some unfinished stuff. That said, I'm working on a piano quartet, and could use some advice on continuing it.

Here's what I've got so far...

beginning of 1st movement

Duano.sib

beginning of 2nd movement

Audition_piece_number_2.mid

middle section of 2nd movement (probably heard 4 or 5 minutes in)

Audition_piece_number_2.sib

complete 4th movement

Theme.sib

The 3rd movement is rough sketches only at this point, so it's not included yet.

Any thoughts/comments?

pianoquartet_mvmt2start.mid

pianoquartet_mvmt2midsection.mid

pianoquartet_mvmt4.mid

pianoquartet_mvmt1start.mid

Beginning of 1st - Perhaps less repetition of the rythmic cells you use? Other than that, it's good stuff.

Beginning of 2nd - Some nice harmony here. Again, the rhythm is fairly repetitive, and it gives the piece a rather droney atmosphere. However, the rhythm gets better towards the end.

Middle of the 2nd - Good use of sequences and counterpoint. The piano almost becomes invisible. The way you've arranged this is very skilled. I think I may have heard some harmonic clashes (e.g. 1:23), just ensure these don't go unchecked. This movement is nicely developed, too.

Complete 4th - More imaginitive, flowing and confident than the previous movements, which is why it's the best so far. The parts intermingle very well, with no single one taking precedence over any others. Again you show your considerable development skills by using sequences and imitation. I felt that the ending wasn't as satisfying or final as it could have been, maybe you need to do some more work on this.

Good stuff, Caltech :unsure:

Hi Caltech

I went through all the movements and I enjoyed all of them very much! It sounds kinda neoclassical, neoromantic, ... sometimes the fourth movement sounds to me almost like a fuge, at least one could find there a good theme for a fuge. You're consistent about the harmony and keep the style of the entire quartet, which makes the message clear and easy to listen to.

It would have been cool to hear the entire thing, all the movements, so that one could get a better feeling of how the parts compliment each other. The first movement sounds to me like it could be a theme to some old movie ... I enjoyed it a lot!

As Mike mentioned, the second movement has some interesting harmony, I think it sounds very good ... if it comes to the form, when I listened to it for the first time it's a bit confusing, there's a lot of things going on in that movement, but it gets clearer after you listen to it a bit more.

Most of all I enjoyed the mid section of the 2nd movement. It starts very mesteriously .. . almost like a Requiem ... I can imagine this sudden shift in moods would sound great, you just need to find a way to nicely connect the beginning and the middle of this movement. Also the introduction of a new theme in the end of the mid section sounds nice ... you just need to continue and develop it further.

The fourth movement is the most advanced one. Many great phrases there. I really liked how you wove piano in between the strings .... that is what I've been unsuccesful with so far ... perhaps I'd like to see some more space for the piano sometimes ... well, but it's a piano quartet, not a concerto ... :-)

Anyway, you should definetely keep on working on it ... and as I said, I'd like to hear the entire form, then I could say a bit more about the whole piece.

Great job!

Regards

~ Misiu

I've listened to all these fragments several times, pulled them into Finale to analyse them, and at this point all I can say is this:

1. This work has enormous potential

2. It misses its mark, IMHO, in ways that would sound nit-picky if I were to try to illustrate them. Indeed, short of rewriting parts of the piece the way I think they should sound in this idiom as I understand it, I'm not sure I could even tell you what I think is wrong.

I suppose what I'd like to ask you is this: what are you trying to accomplish in this composition? Are you consciously trying to be neo-romantic or neo-classical? If so, is an authentic representation of this idiom important to you (i.e. would you like to avoid "mistakes" that Brahms and Tchaikowsky wouldn't have made)? Or are you more interested in creating a personal impression of this idiom without its restraints, conventions and subtleties?

You're such a good composer. I just wish I understood what you're trying to do so I could be more constructive in my criticism, which if I recall rightly is what you're after.

Originally posted by J. Lee Graham@Jul 5 2005, 12:51 AM

I've listened to all these fragments several times, pulled them into Finale to analyse them, and at this point all I can say is this:

1.  This work has enormous potential

2.  It misses its mark, IMHO, in ways that would sound nit-picky if I were to try to illustrate them. 

Okay, that's actually really helpful. I'm not hearing as much Mendelssohn as Brahms in the character of the piece (it wouldn't matter - you'd be in the best of company either way), but now that I know you're not trying specifically to emulate any particular style, it might make it easier. I'll take a look again at your 2nd movement sketches.

I LOVED IT! It is so beautiful. I must say, i'm quite jealous. My least favorite is the beginning of the 2nd movement. But, it was all wonderful.. GREAT JOB!

Forgive me if this makes no sense, I don't know that much about compostion, I'm still in the which will be very obvious soon:

I liked the first movement, especially towards the beginning. The way you built up until the piano came in (God, there has to be a better phrase for that) worked really well, though the rhythms at the beginning led me to expect a bit of a dirge. Perhaps that impression could be changed with an intro? Once the piano comes in it's woven nicely with the strings. In some parts the rhythms felt a little straightforward, but in general there was a nice lilt and and I liked the interplay starting at 1:12.

In the beginning of the 2nd movement, I liked the feel of the music though the midi assaulted my ears slightly. :D Again, occasionally the rhythms felt slightly simplistic to me in places. Is that indicative of a particular style? The piano is beautiful though. Through this section I kept seeing flashes of a castle setting, some sort of movie\play music, until it led into that lighter tone, which was nice.

I loved the middle of the 2nd movement from the moment I heard it, though I'm sure my kid brother in the next room didn't, seeing as it was 1:30 AM, and I'm sure was trying to go to sleep. The transition into a simpler setup was nice. I really liked this section.

Fourth Movement builds well, beautiful ideas in this one. The crescendos and decrescendos worked wonderfully, and it brought back that castle image to mind, which created a nice togetherness, to me, if nothing else. Very exciting piece definitely. Your uncertainty about writing for the piano isn't clear to the slightly-trained ear, which will, as we all hope anyway, make up most of your audience. I really liked it. Can't offer any solutions for completing it, as my longest composition is maybe 3 minutes, :blush: but I can say I loved it. :D

Hey Andrew:

I had a chance to look at the 2nd movement sketches, and I have some suggestions.

I realized at some point where a fair amount of my critical feeling was coming from: in an idiom that seems to me like a Mendelssohn/Brahms love affair with a Martinu sense of modernity at times, you just don

Muchas gracias. I didn't expect such a detailed look at the sketch, but it's much appreciated. I think I'm going to read it more carefully and do a bit of revising as soon as I have time for it (which won't be until after the weekend).

Only one thing: I can't see what you've done with the image. It's so small that it's totally unreadable.

You're welcome. It was an interesting analysis. I've never quite known what to say to you, Andrew, in the way of constructive criticism, and I know that's what you're after. I hope it gave you something you could use.

Only one thing: I can't see what you've done with the image.  It's so small that it's totally unreadable.

Drat! It was working last night...oh well, the cheap-arse server I loaded that on turned it into a thumbnail.

I'd attach the Finale file, but I didn't save it...fool that I am.

If you don't mind, just right-click on the image, save it somewhere, then view it. Sorry 'bout that.

Um, tried that. Still tiny.

Um, tried that.

I really haven't had time to do any writing this week, but I did come up with a revised version of the 2nd movement middle section. I ended up using most of the suggestions, though it seems to me that on the second beat of measure 11 the strings don't really imply a chord other than C major. The changes there were to change the C major chord from root position to 2nd inversion, and to fix the parallel octaves problem. Also, I'm not quite sure whether or not doubling the melody at measure 22 is justified... I may have to wait until final version to decide, after I've gone ahead and tried a live reading of the passage.

Anyway, here's the revised edition.

conqueso_harmony.mid

pianoquartet_mvmt2midsection071605.mid

Wow! :blush:

Also, I'm not quite sure whether or not doubling the melody at measure 22 is justified... I may have to wait until final version to decide, after I've gone ahead and tried a live reading of the passage.

You mean between the cello and the piano (broken up between the power-chords)? That works beautifully, I think - the cello sustains, while the piano reinforces it. But use your best judgment. The violin also feels like it's playing a countermelody there, and the viola fills in - nice.

The only thing I didn't like is the parallel fifths between the violin and the lowest notes in the piano on beats 3 and 4 of measure 41. Do you see it? You have the violin descending from A to G, and the bottom notes of the piano descending from D to C. Even an octave and a half apart, they're still parallel fifths. A top-line F and high C in the piano on beat 3 would solve the problem if you're of the mind, though it would change the chord to F instead of D minor.

To my ears, this makes more sense while it retains its expressiveness and individuality. Do you feel good about it? This section is really powerful and satisfying. Congratulations!

I enjoyed this piece very much. I believe Mike stated that the 3rd movement was the best, and I would have to agree fully with him on this (apart from his comments on the ending - I truly enjoyed it and found it fitting). This movement really captured my hear and kept me clinging on for more! I love the sudden jump at ~1:53... it reminded me of the dynamics of a Beethovian piece. Very impressive and great work! I would love for you to email me the completed version if possible? I'd appreciate hearing this great piece in its final form and watching it develop!

info@jbelelieu.com

Thanks,

Jonathan

http://www.jbelelieu.com/

Moved to Writer's Block and Music Suggestions - I originally posted this before the Writer's Block forum opened, and it's not a finished piece, so it should go here.

This weekend, I had time to work on the piece for the first time in several weeks. Not much done, but here's an extension of the beginning of the 2nd movement (about 20 seconds longer, plus another 2-3 measures' continuation of melody)...

iforB2.mid

And the Sibelius file (please note that dynamics are currently for MIDI purposes and will be edited later):

24c_kort_b.mid

I also got some third movement sketching done, and will start posting that in the next couple days, when I find the time.

pianoquartet_mvmt2start081405.mid

mvmt2notes.sib

So much for finding time. But midnight oil has extended the beginning of the 1st movement.

BICINIA1.MID

Note: after about 1:54, it's just a melodic skeleton, with most of the parts missing.

Any thoughts/comments/suggestions? I can't help but think I'm not really giving the second theme enough time to spin itself out...

pianoquartet_mvmt1start091905.mid

Any comments on the most recent changes/additions? Anyone?

Another attempt to get feedback, because I really want to hear what people have to say on some specific things.

happybirthday_mozart.sib

Same movement, 10 days later. I've now extended all parts through m. 83 (2:01); although the rest is slightly fleshed out, it's still mostly a skeletal outline.

Specific points for commenting (as well as anything else you can think of):

m. 67-74 (1:37-1:48) - should I do something else to lead into and/or segue out of the fast violin passage?

m. 71 (1:42) - I recently realized that there's a bit of quotation of Mendelssohn here, though well out of the context that he used it in. Thoughts?

From m. 53 (1:17) onward in general - thoughts on development so far (keeping in mind, again, that parts are missing after 2:01)?

pianoquartet_mvmt1start092905.mid

First impression on listening; I'm getting more Brahms than Mendelssohn, especially 1:10-1:20ish I think, reminds me (*I think*) of the 2nd clarinet sonata (not that that's a problem at all! one of my favourite pieces), I don't think I recognise the quotation you mention, sorry.

(I suppose I should say pre-first, I like it a lot a lot a lot; I'd love to be able to write like this.)

In terms on the lead in to the fast violin passage (and bear in mind I am nowhere near as advanced as you in composition), I quite like a crotchet on the high D in the violin over the C-Ab in the viola to lead it in, and 6 semiquavers and a dotted crotchet for the violin instead of the dotted minim at the end, to sort of drag the rhythm through the transition.

I love the transition at 1:23 (sorry, no bar counter on my software...), and the development is great (a very general comment, I know, but you asked for general...); I really look forward to hearing more.

I'm more than a little bit envious...

Encore!

Adam.

Just a little bump to ask if you'd done any more on this, I'd really like to hear it. :)

Just a little bump to ask if you'd done any more on this, I'd really like to hear it.  :unsure:

Well, just a little, mostly filling in holes. I had exams, and I've been sick for a while, so I'm just barely holding on in school, and haven't really been able to compose for a while.

Here's what I've got for the first movement now:

challenge2.mid

It's complete to about 2:44, after which parts may be missing.

pianoquartet_mvmt1start102705.mid

Sorry to hear you've not been well. (I order you to get better. * laughs *)

And my word, that's lovely. I know we're supposed to be working on moving towards being more critical, but I like this piece too darn much. (The fourth movement has got to be one of my favourite pieces from the entire YC output - or from what I've heard from all of you, at least.) Something about your key changes in particular (in the horn concerto, too) actually really gets into my emotional side (which even if I'm quite used to it happening is remarkable each time it happens). How odd music can be!

So yeah. Not a terribly helpful review. But you do have fans out there. * grins *

Damn! That 1st movement just keeps getting better and better. The influence of Brahms is on the increase, yet you haven't carbon-copied him - it's an individual, personal expression. I'm not sure I quite agree with precisely the way you've done some of your progressions, yet the overall effect works, so I'm going to shut up about that. I tend to raise an eyebrow when something doesn't go where I think it should go.