Resolution

Thank you, I would be very grateful if you did.

Dude, the only reason I responded in such a way is because you were being an donkey. It seemed like you were talking down to me, like you assumed I knew nothing.Maybe you were trying to help, but it seemed like you were trying more to insult me then help me. This isn't my first time writing something. Oh, and I would critique your works, but you have none.

Hoo boy if you thought THAT was being an donkey, then you are NOT cut out for the world of criticism. Did I call you names? Insult you personally? Attack you baselessly? Mmmm no! Turns out I was trying to point out a flaw in the work - HOW SHOULD I HAVE KNOW YOU WERE ALREADY AWARE OF IT? You literally could have said "Thanks, I was aware of that, I just didn't do it this draft/not worrying about it until the music is done" and aaaaaall would have been well

You are the same person as someone I went to school with. Percussionist, K/C/atherine, musical style, sensitiveness to criticism, everything. The very same person.

As for the piece, it wasn't really my thing. More movements as your relationship progresses maybe?

You are the same person as someone I went to school with. Percussionist, K/C/atherine, musical style, sensitiveness to criticism, everything. The very same person.

Was that really necessary to call out?

And I wouldn't necessarily call it being sensitive to criticism. Dev was a bit more straightforward than the other commenters and it doesn't surprise me that Patrick took it as being talked down to, I would have too! However, in the end he was being helpful and it should be common sense to just forget about audio and use the text tool!

(On a sidenote, I recommend upgrading to Finale 2010! It has much better percussion mapping!)

As for the music, if it wasn't your thing, and you had nothing helpful at all to say, why even bother to comment?

Okay, everyone, let's calm down. Everyone's making a mountain of a molehill. It's escalated from a simple "which cymbal are you meaning here" question to a "hey everybody, I know this person and here's who they are" scenario. The forum is to be used for the critiquing of the music, not the people who create it. Let's leave any possible judgment on a piece or a statement made by someone based on what we may know of the person at the door.

Let's make it simple. If people are that worried about audio, try my approach. I create a piece, focusing on the audio first, and then tidy it up before making a final/draft copy of the score. I keep the files separate, which does create more work in a way. I even keep separate files for scores and parts (though that's mostly because I start with a parts file that has every part separate in the score, and then truncate it like I should for a normal score reading).

I'm sorry; I noted earlier that the general midi mapping for percussion has a suspended cymbal. However, I think when they programmed the original midi map, they were under the impression that "suspended cymbal" was any cymbal that is freely suspended (that is, nothing touching the actual cymbal portion). However, the modern approach is that there is an actual type of cymbal called "suspended", though I'm not certain if it's a different type of cymbal, or one of the other ones that has been renamed.

The one that I use to get a nice effect on the cymbal roll is the Splash Cymbal, which in C major is notated at the G just below middle C. Since your piece is in Db major, the Splash Cymbal would be notated at the Ab just below middle C. What I would suggest doing is what I've become accustomed to using. Create a blank stave, and input the "percussion" part there. For example, you'd put a half-note on the Ab below middle C in measure 12, add the roll, then copy-paste or drag-copy the measure onto the percussion line. It should playback right, and also be correct in the way it appears. Since you don't change keys, you won't have to worry about doing anything more.

jajajajajajajajaja

I didn't mean to be offensive. Sorry if that came off as mean, I didn't intend to be hurtful.

Gixander:

I was about to say exactly what you said, but then I looked it up and found out otherwise. I personally have simply used a crash cymbal in the past. Put a roll on it and it sounds just like a sus cymbal roll (can't figure out how to choke it, though).

But here's some reading to figure out how to access the actual suspended cymbal sounds:

http://www.finalemusic.com/UserManuals/Finale2010Win/Finale_Left.htm?suspended cymbal#CSHID=1|StartTopic=Content%2FFinale%2FSearch.htm|SkinName=main

Click on rank #2 in the search table.

I'm sure there's a way. Just not personally interested in figuring it out this second.

Gixander:

I was about to say exactly what you said, but then I looked it up and found out otherwise. I personally have simply used a crash cymbal in the past. Put a roll on it and it sounds just like a sus cymbal roll (can't figure out how to choke it, though).

But here's some reading to figure out how to access the actual suspended cymbal sounds:

http://www.finalemusic.com/UserManuals/Finale2010Win/Finale_Left.htm?suspended cymbal#CSHID=1|StartTopic=Content%2FFinale%2FSearch.htm|SkinName=main

Click on rank #2 in the search table.

I'm sure there's a way. Just not personally interested in figuring it out this second.

That's fine. In my opinion, it really depends on the sound you are trying to achieve (and I'm one of those who grew up with the understanding that any cymbal is suspended, so whether it be ride, crash, or splash, they could all be right). To me, a Crash Roll pierces more than the Splash, but it's whatever you think sounds best for that part. You can remap the percussion in Finale so they all show up the same, and only use the different pitch mappings for the audio (so in a way, a little bit more elbow grease and you can kill two birds with one stone, i.e., make the audio sound good and also make it visually look correct).

Now, I know that due to the lack of a standard suspended cymbal being added into Finale's basic information, there's been a good number of samples created to fill that void. I, for one, don't feel the need to go out of my way to get a perfect audio creation. Yes, it's nice and all, but you can't truly see whether a piece works or not until a performance. What I've got has worked well enough to give me an idea of whether the orchestration is working right, so I'm not in a hurry to change it.

And yeah, I know the feeling, I'm still trying to find a good way to choke the cymbal. One possible way I just thought of is a bit of work, but might actually pull it off. If you create an expression that sets the volume of the part to 0, and then set it to start at the position in the measure (i.e., where you placed it), then it should choke it off. Of course, you'll have to turn the volume back to some other number afterwards, and follow it with a new dynamic to re-establish the volume level. We can look into that as being an option. Of course, it'll be a blank expression so it doesn't show.

See, I tried that method to try to get the sound to choke, namely adding an invisible "niente" marking afterwards as well as trying to put a superfast decrescendo expression marking, and nothing I did would stop the sound for some reason. Have you been able to get that to work?

But yeah, I agree it's actually a pretty good sound without having to tredge into the depths of Finale's percussion maps.

Okay, here's what I did to make it work. And I just tried it, and this was the result. Let me know if this sounds decent enough. The first time is without the choke expression, the second time is with.

Here's the "Score" I used to test:

Cymbal Choke Test Audio

Create a new dynamic expression. Make it blank or whatever you want. When you go to the next tab, "Playback", the Type menu should be set to "Controller", not "Key Velocity". When that's set to "Controller", set the value box immediately to the right of that to 11, which is "Expression". Down below, where you'd normally set the value for a dynamic level, set the value to 0.

It should look like this:

Afterwards, place it like a normal dynamic (obviously you can move it wherever you want afterwards, if you used text for it). Right click on the box, and hit the first selection, which is "Edit Expression Assignment". Make certain that out of the bottom three selections, it says "Alignment Point". Finale should default to that, and that's okay since we made the expression a dynamic (and therefore, the alignment point is going to be whatever we have it attached to). You could do "position in measure" also, but why add extra work? (Though, keep it in mind if something goes wrong.)

And that's all you have to do. You just have to apply it at the point you want it to choke, as I did (see the "score").

However, remember to create another expression and set it to whatever you have the volume for the line set at. So you have one setting the value to "0", as above, and then another setting it to whatever the line's volume control in the mixer is at. I don't know if this is just me, but percussion is always ANNOYINGLY soft (so much so I built a template to have percussion dynamics that are louder to compensate). But I still end up leaving everything at 100, where the mixer starts everything. So, unless you changed the mixer settings, you should be able to duplicate the one you just made for "0", and make one for "100". Remember you have to put this expression in when you want it to start playing again.

While you could put the "100" expression immediately after the choke one, the problem is that the cymbal will start sounding again. All the choke expression does is basically hit the mute button, so if it's not done ringing out, hitting the mute button a second time will let you hear what's left. That's why I highly suggest that you wait until the note when the percussion/cymbals start playing again to put the "100". Makes life easier.

*sigh* Your idea works, but it causes a kind of glitch. The playback of the staff in general has been altered. The entire staff now has an extremely reduced volume even with an expression mark that brings it back. Finale is still riddled with bugs, I see, though the most obvious ones have been taken care of in v.2010...

meh. I don't know about you, but I'm gonna revisit this sometime in the future when I need it. :lol:

(sorry for the brief hijack)

Yeah, it's not perfect, and there's a lot of bugs in using it. Of course, we aren't writing music in the program for playback by the program anyways. That's just a bonus we get for using it. Oh well.