Yet another fugue...

So, for those of you who are into fugues and counterpoint, here's one I finished today:

Fugue in c minor

For those of you who hate fugues, sorry! :innocent:

Holy cow, that's really really good. I enjoyed this as much as Bach.

Holy cow, that's really really good. I enjoyed this as much as Bach.

Still, it's vastly inferior to Bach.

The question is, though, how much do you enjoy listening to Bach? :P

I'm very impressed. This is fantastically written. 100% Baroque all the way, however whilst it's like Bach, it's very obviously not Bach since he does things you don't and vice versa.

I could never write anything anywhere near this good in this style; all my attempts sound like the same old pseudo-romantic crud played on a harpsichord instead of a piano, heh.

Speaking of which, what sample bank/instrument was this mixed down with, because I can hear *key presses* in the samples which you rarely get any more, and I like the sound. Failing that, you played this and have an internal quantise function. :P

I love the bit near the end where the left plays a drone and the right play in thirds. Very emotive. :ninja:

Is cool, innit bruv.

Still, it's vastly inferior to Bach.

The question is, though, how much do you enjoy listening to Bach? :P

Okay well I didn't say it was as good as Bach's best now did I? :ninja: Good job either way. I went to your website and listened to some more things. What do you use to compose? Those are really nice soundfonts

What do you mean vastly inferior anyhow. In what way? I think one can take idolization of a great man from the past a little too far--to the point where you have little or no respect for your own creative drive. Anyway---nothing wrong with modesty :P

I'm very impressed. This is fantastically written. 100% Baroque all the way, however whilst it's like Bach, it's very obviously not Bach since he does things you don't and vice versa.[/b]

Thanks. It's meant to be Baroque, but not Bach by a long shot.

I could never write anything anywhere near this good in this style; all my attempts sound like the same old pseudo-romantic crud played on a harpsichord instead of a piano, heh.

I listened to your improvisation and I'd hardly consider it crud. I think it's wonderfully done and should be committed to paper.

Speaking of which, what sample bank/instrument was this mixed down with, because I can hear *key presses* in the samples which you rarely get any more, and I like the sound. Failing that, you played this and have an internal quantise function. :P

I had a fellow "neobarocchist" take my MIDI and process it through a program of his. It's called (aptly) Toccata, and it has a sampling of a 1720 Blanchet harpsichord. The 16' part (I'm not aware of an early 18th century French pedal harpsichord) is just there because I had it playing through an organ patch on my computer and I liked the gravity it added. While I have a real harpsichord, I can't play it (or any other keyboard instrument for that matter) aside from the simplest doodlings.

These stand-alone fugues don't really have a specific instrumentation and I only do them as exercises to refine my proficiency at composition. Consider them musical "design studies".

An Excellent Fugue, Mark. :P

This is why you are in the top two young composers I know.

You seem to have a good understanding of harmony.

As I stated a few times before it has a pureness to it.

While I don't know if anyone can compare a work with Bach. I am sure Bach would have admired this work, as he loved other Baroque composers works of good quality. One thing about Bach that I notice that stood out above anyone else was his ability to always be going somewhere. He never keeps me in one place or makes me feel like I am going in circles. I notice in your fugues you keep the works going somewhere, more than you do in your orchestral works. I think fugues do that moreso by nature anyways with all their devices.

If you added preludes to your Fugues you could do a set of some serious organ works that I am certain won't fade anytime soon. You are part of the Baroque Rivalists, so why not make them for a certain instrument and add some preludes? I hope you'll do a set of preludes and fugues while you still have that youthful energy. Didn't Bach do most of his large Organ works in his early to mid 20's?

I am curious, do you feel alot of energy before you start a work like this? I find lately I don't have the energy to do the more complex works. Without that energy I find I can only do simple works.

If energy is not needed then one must truly have a good understanding of the in's and outs of harmony/counterpoint.

I was actually going to ask what soundfont you used too, but I see you answered that.

Ah, I am on my 3rd or 4th listen now. I will probably listen to it 100 times.

Again, Great work! Hope to hear a prelude to it! :ninja:

Jeremy

What do you use to compose? Those are really nice soundfonts[/b]

See my last post for what was used in this recording. Normally, though, I use Noteworthy Composer and I've got an Audigy soundcard. The soundfonts are from various free sources.

What do you mean vastly inferior anyhow. In what way?

Maybe not vastly, then. But it still isn't as good.

to the point where you have little or no respect for your own creative drive.

Oh, I certainly think I write halfway-decent music. Nothing spectacular, but definitely solid. If I didn't think so, I wouldn't dare make it available for others to hear! :P

This is why you are in the top two young composers I know.[/b]

But you only know two, and you're one of them! :P

You seem to have a good understanding of harmony.

Things aren't always as they seem, you know. There are some consecutive fifths in this one, and I'm very picky about avoiding them. Here, they're intentionally placed, but I don't know if that's OK even if I meant to do it.

One thing about Bach that I notice that stood out above anyone else was his ability to always be going somewhere.

But he's able to "go somewhere" with an economy of ideas. I use more ideas, and that's what makes mine inferior. Musical diarrhoea.

I hope you'll do a set of preludes and fugues while you still have that youthful energy.

OK, now this means you only know one composer. People that know me know that I have about as much "youthful energy" as, well, let's just say that I like to be asleep before 9 PM. And the fact that I'm sitting here in front of my computer at 11 on a Saturday night doesn't say much for youthful vigour, now does it? :huh:

Didn't Bach do most of his large Organ works in his early to mid 20's?

He did a lot of them at that time and they're actually among his worst. :P

I am curious, do you feel alot of energy before you start a work like this?

No, actually, I did the last half of this yesterday after writing a prosthodontics exam that I couldn't make sense of.

Ah, I am on my 3rd or 4th listen now. I will probably listen to it 100 times.

Don't listen to it too much or your eyes will explode. At five-and-a-half minutes a pop, that's a lot of wasted time. Finish YOUR c minor fugue. :w00t:

Again, great work

Thanks. :ninja:

But you only know two, and you're one of them! :wacko:

OK, now this means you only know one composer. People that know me know that I have about as much "youthful energy" as, well, let's just say that I like to be asleep before 9 PM. And the fact that I'm sitting here in front of my computer at 11 on a Saturday night doesn't say much for youthful vigour, now does it?[/b]

There has to be some level of inner stirring/energy/inspiration/zeal. I am pretty boring in the eyes of the world myself, but I do get levels of energy before composing works. It usaully fades for awhile after a nice work and builds again over time. The longer I wait to compose a work the more energy builds it seems.

He did a lot of them at that time and they're actually among his worst. :happy: [/b]

:P Bach worst? Huh, when, where, what? When did he compose BWV 542, 548, 578, 552, 532. etc... I thought he did those at about 23 years old.

Finish YOUR c minor fugue. :w00t:

Its actually hard for me to rework a piece if I don't have alot of energy (Or I am just lazy). I do better starting a new one.

Jeremy

There are some consecutive fifths in this one, and I'm very picky about avoiding them. Here, they're intentionally placed, but I don't know if that's OK even if I meant to do it.

Could have fooled me! As far as MY ears are concerned, this music is "correct." I personally don't understand the part writing rules. I would not be able to tell the slightest difference between the harmonies in this fugue and one bach wrote. When you listen, can you actually hear these consecutive fifths, even if you didn't know there were any there AND were not looking for them? It seems to me if this was a really important consideration, more people would sit up and notice something that sounds odd. However I bet the vast majority of people except EXPERTS ON FUGUES would actually notice them. That said, does it really improve a piece to completely eliminate all presence of consecutive fifths? It seems so arbitrary.

Now just a moment! I DO understand, in the context of SLOW, 4 part harmony for 4 voices....that if suddenly a pair of those voices start moving in parallel octaves or fifths, that will obviously diminish the independence of those voices. However in really active instrumental music which arguably demonstrates independence of voices rhythmically as well as harmonically, it seems to me less important to go for absolute harmonic independence at all times.

Oh well...*I* don't think you need to get rid of those wherever they are. I like it as it is.

No! Actually, its Andrew Baldwin.[/b]

OK, so you know three! :wacko:

There has to be some level of inner stirring/energy/inspiration/zeal.

It's called a good supper.

:P Bach worst? Huh, when, where, what? When did he compose BWV 542, 548, 578, 552, 532. etc... I thought he did those at about 23 years old.

Worst is, of course, a relative term. I didn't say bad, but they're not as "engineered" as his later works. Besides, I'm not a big fan of organ (or any clavier) music in general.

Its actually hard for me to rework a piece if I don't have alot of energy (Or I am just lazy). I do better starting a new one.

Come on, just do it. It'll make the next one you start from scratch that much better. :happy:

Come on, just do it. It'll make the next one you start from scratch that much better.

O...Um.. O man... I am feeling some peer pressure here. What's next will you entice me to invert and augment?

Eventually, yes. Just work on the counterpoint for now. Dude, half the first exposition is already done for you, you just have to fill in the spaces! :wacko: Step by step, you know. You WERE serious when you said you wanted to learn, weren't you? :blush: Just finish the exposition to start, send it back to me, and we can go over it. Once we iron that out, we move on to the next section.

Or ya just yankin me chain, mate? :ermm:

I mean, your music's fine for what it is, but it's not Baroque. You were very adamant about wanting to go baroque and, well, this is how I do things.

Starke suggested I give you figured basses to realise. You want to go that way? I can do that too, but I figured you'd have more fun with the fugue. :(

I can also put you in touch with Pacchioni, but you're going to have a hard time unless you have at least a rudimentary knowledge of Italian.

Hey, do you suppose you could write a short article/tutorial on this site about figured bass? I have a book called "Fugal Improvisation through Figured Bass" and I've been messing with it a bit, but it is not entirely clear to me how to improvise figures that "fit" with the intervals above the bass note. I know you don't do keyboard improvisation but I'm sure the figured bass knowledge will carry over whether notated or extemporized.

Hey, do you suppose you could write a short article/tutorial on this site about figured bass? I have a book called "Fugal Improvisation through Figured Bass" and I've been messing with it a bit, but it is not entirely clear to me how to improvise figures that "fit" with the intervals above the bass note. I know you don't do keyboard improvisation but I'm sure the figured bass knowledge will carry over whether notated or extemporized.

Eventually. In the meantime, I hope the contacts I sent you will suffice.

s- "Don't listen to it too much or your eyes will explode. At five-and-a-half minutes a pop, that's a lot of wasted time. Finish YOUR c minor fugue."

I have to say that these 5 and a half minutes are not wasted time... That's a work of genius, if I can say so myself. If I may say so myself, many of the people on this site are "geniuses" in their own right, but yours strikes a chord very close to my likeness... I haven't heard many here that write baroque music (in my opinion a very high art indeed).

Just because one has to go to bed early doesn't mean a thing along the lines of youthful vitality, btw.

That's a work of genius, if I can say so myself.[/b]

As you say.

I haven't heard many here that write baroque music (in my opinion a very high art indeed).

There are actually many who would have you believe otherwise. There are currently discussions running on Usenet (go to www.deja.com, search for both the rec.music.compose and rec.music.early newsgroups, under the discussions entitled "Baroque Revival"). Be aware that some of these discussions have explicit language.

Just because one has to go to bed early doesn't mean a thing along the lines of youthful vitality, btw.

When you're in your mid-20s and still go to bed early, by choice, it means a lot. :)

Amazing, just simply amazing. You have a real talent (composing in counterpoint is very hard). It is a shame that not many other people compose like this/ have an appreciation for this kind of music.

Amazing, just simply amazing.[/b]

Maybe.

You have a real talent (composing in counterpoint is very hard).

All the notes are there for anyone to write down. The secret is knowing where each one goes.

It is a shame that not many other people compose like this/ have an appreciation for this kind of music.

I'm used to it.

Here's another rendition of the same, on a chamber organ. (it's here)

Encore! :)

Thats really well written, how long did it take to write? I could never write something to even come close to comparing to that.

Keep up the good work!

~Brad~

About eight hours total over the course of two days.

I have another one here, though, not as complicated or as long.

Whatever happened to the Fuga you had on the CMC?

That one was great. I still remember the theme.

Whatever happened to the Fuga you had on the CMC?

That one was great. I still remember the theme.

You mean the one that starts in g minor and ends in c minor? Dude, that one sucks. I wrote that when I was 18, back in '98. But here it is, in MIDI. Not worth making an mp3 of.

fuga_c_m_ll.mid

Yes, that one! I love that one. :P

I just run a midi through my soundfont program and it sounds awesome on harpsichord. :D