Soaring Against the Sky

(Previously Known As "Where Eagles Soar")"Soaring Against the Sky" is a piece I wrote as a memorial piece for a fellow musician who passed away mere days before the final concert of our concert band summer season. He was a trumpeter, a charter member of the concert band, and one of the sweetest people who ever lived. This is my favorite piece of music I've written for concert band, so I hope you enjoy it as well.All questions and comments are welcome for discussion.

Soaring Against the Sky

Greetings,

First off, when I saw the title of this post, I thought it was going to be an arrangement of Steven Reineke's piece; it is also titled "Where Eagles Soar". I really enjoyed this piece. It has very lush melodies and in the livelier sections, there are some very exciting parts. Speaking of the faster/livelier sections, I feel it could have been more exciting if the percussion were engaging just a little bit more. The slower, middle section was very beautiful and almost had me crying when your arrangement of Taps was played by the Trumpets. The ending was perfect for this piece and I will definitely continue listening to your pieces. Your choice of instrumentation was also quite appealing to me, but that was just my opinion. As a Euphonium player, there were instances where I would have loved to hear the Euphonium playing some rendition of the melody instead of playing the accompaniment. All-in-all, excellent piece.

Peace,

C.L. Winston

I don't know how I overlooked that as a title. It just sounded fitting as to where he was now. Of course, I can't really think of another title at the moment; but since it's not unheard of for multiple pieces to have the same title, I'm not certain I will. Who knows?

The problem is that I'd certainly use more percussion, if the band this was written for and that our trumpeter was a part of had more than two percussionists. It's a mix of that and not having the right instruments available (we are a small group, even though we use the facilities at a community college). I was debating on timpani, but my first thought was that would be too loud in a piece that's meant to be light and full of motion.

The same problem we have with the percussion permeates the entire band. We don't have a nice balance, so I know this won't sound as good as it can without a lot of practice. But we only have two euphoniums, and they're not as strong to where a part you'd be thinking of would sound good. Plus, they usually sit on the opposite side from the Trombones, so having them scored this way fills out the harmony this way.

I do have an idea for another piece which focuses more on the Brass. This piece was more centered on a nice 1st Trumpet part because it was written in his memory.

The instrumentation I use for concert band never changes, because it's not too small and it's not too large, plus it fits my group perfectly. Piccolo, 2 Flutes, Oboe (we had one, we're getting a new one supposedly, but were kinda in the middle of it at the moment), 3 Bb Clarinets, Bb Bass Clarinet, 2 Alto Saxes, Tenor Sax, Bari Sax, 3 Bb Trumpets, 2 Horns, 2 Trombones, Baritone/Euphonium, Tuba, and whatever Percussion I deem usable for that piece. I wait until the end to do Percussion, though, unless I make mini-notes on what can work at places so I don't forget.

I should have seen that Reineke had a piece called "Where Eagles Soar", since I've been studying Barnhouse's collection (they have the scores...much more useful to us composers than an audio file, in my opinion). However, I think it's because I've only read through their scores up to letter M, so I wasn't there yet. I'm certain you can hear bits and pieces of scoring styles of Swearingen, Huckeby, and others.

Great piece, and a very nice tribute to your friend. I'm sorry for your loss.

The melodies were very well thought out, and seemed to flow perfectly. It sounds like a very professional piece. The way you used the flutes, oboes, and trumpets was very nice, however the rhythmic background held by the saxophones is genius.

I'm not sure how a horn player can do a glissando, might want to check up on that.............

All in all, a truly excellent piece! 9/10

-MF

Horns can do a glissando, just like other valved brass instruments. It's certainly possible, and I've seen it in lots of works. I've used it a few times before. The only instrument that can do a "true" gliss is a trombone. Everyone else is just a random chromatic scale between two notes, and the fact that multiple people on a part don't play the same gliss in the same way. So together three or four people playing a gliss end up creating something that sounds similar to the ear as a trombone glissando.

Horns can do a glissando, just like other valved brass instruments. It's certainly possible, and I've seen it in lots of works. I've used it a few times before. The only instrument that can do a "true" gliss is a trombone. Everyone else is just a random chromatic scale between two notes, and the fact that multiple people on a part don't play the same gliss in the same way. So together three or four people playing a gliss end up creating something that sounds similar to the ear as a trombone glissando.

;) I stand corrected.

Wow. I am in awe- that was a grand tribute to your friend. Cooincidentally a year ago today a classmate of mine died as well, and I have been thinking of writing a song dedicated to his life. This was absolutely beautiful, and I loved how you showcased the trumpet section, but also didn't totally make it one big trumpet feature. I also especially liked your taps section as well- that was gorgeous. I'm adding this to my favorites. Keep up the good work!

I really liked this piece, because this is my second time writing a review for it.

The first time, I backspaced causing me to have to rewrite everything I said.

Moving On,

Ew, you listen to Swearingen?

Just kidding, music is music! He's just not my favorite composer.

However, if you like listening to audio/viewing scores like I do, I recommend going to TRN, Alfred, Listening Lab and sometimes even Hal Leonard. These sites all include scores, for the most part. Barnhouse is very conservative and narrow when it comes to their music (if researched this closely) and if you branch out to these sites, you'll definitely get to hear music from all parts of the spectrum.

Now, to your piece.

1. Your score.

Did you use one of the finale templates?

If not, how did you get the brackets in the trumpets/clarinets? PM me about this, because I'm dying to know.

2. The first slow section is gorgeous! Beautiful chords, writing orchestration, everything is just top-notch!

Great job!

3. The fast section. Yeah, I can really tell you've been listening to Swearingen. Your melody sounds like it came straight from his head. I feel like it really doesn't bring anything new and I get that, wow, I've heard this 1000 times feel. Which isn't that bad from an audience standpoint, but from a performer/composer standpoint, it's a note that should be taken. It's very repetitive also, so I would probably add a more interesting section in this "movement" to keep interest better! Like said about, some more interesting counter-melodies and more engaging percussion would really make this section soar! No pun intended. It just seems to drag and drag. Your transition to the slow part sounded very swearingen-ish, not a bad thing, just something i noticed.

4. I thought the taps section was actually pretty cheesy, in my opinion. I thought if you would have made better use of the ensemble and added more to this section that trumpets, percussion, and clarinet chords it would be pulled off better. Your transition to the fast part again sounds very Swearingen-ish, I can tell you really like this guy, huh?

5. By the time I hear this fast section again, I want to cringe.

6. Your finale sounds very, well , you know!

I hope I don't sound rude or whatnot, you have GREAT material, and don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed it!

Good job, and keep composing!

1. No, it's not a built-in Finale template. I write my scores one part to one stave (so there's two staves for Flute 1 and 2). Once I'm done with that, I'll save that and use that as a file for parts. I sit there and go measure by measure between parts that are normally on one stave, such as Flute 1/2 or Clarinets 2/3, and if the "lower" (i.e., higher numbered part, so Flute 2 or Clarinet 3) has a different rhythm, I'll change that measure to voice 2. When I'm done, I'll implode the music (Edit -> Implode Music), and then set it to implode to the top staff of selection. This merges the two parts together, and if the rhythms are the same the beams merge, otherwise the lower part is on voice 2, so the staves will shift down.

As far as the brackets, those are groups. In order to have it look like I do, you name the staves "1" or "2/3", etc. You click on the stave tool, and highlight the parts that will be bracketed together, such as the Clarinets or Trumpets. Right-click, and hit Add Group. In there, you'll do what you would normally do for the staves (select the bracket and the such, and the group name is what will appear, so you'll type "Bb Clarinets"). I do this also for staves where there are multiple parts, such as Alto Saxes, but I don't mess with a bracket, obviously.

2. Not much to say on this, but thanks!

3. The problem with music in general is that you have to fight redundancy. Many concert band pieces follow an AABA format for their opening faster section. Lately, I've been trying to avoid doing this, but since this had a specific purpose as a memorial piece, I left it that way. If I were to rewrite it, which I probably won't other than problems that may arise during practice later in the fall, I'd be adding more technically difficult parts. But we are not a technically demanding group, since we are a community band. We have two or three months where we practice for two hours on Tuesdays, then concerts. We don't have the time to deal with Grade 4 or 5 parts, and this fits nicely into the Grade 3 or 3.5 range. I'm starting to listen to alot of Reineke, so here's to hoping that while I'm starting to ignore form when I write, that his ability to just break out of the norm will rub off and work in my favor. The main sticking point as to why I was reviewing Swearingen, among all of the other composers that are out on the Barnhouse site (since they have the entire score, and many of the pieces you can hear in full on youtube anyways), is because he's well-known and his pieces, although most have a cookie-cutter quality to their form, are enjoyable. Certainly, you can play the faster section at a faster tempo, which will remove some of the perceived lag.

I also mentioned that when writing for a specific ensemble, you have to take into account the available instrumentation. We have, at most, three percussion, usually two. I can't be writing six or seven percussion parts going at once, at least for the moment. If I ever decide to attempt to have this published, I'd go back and rework it so that all of the points made are added into the composition. But it'll stand as is for our group.

4. I added the Taps section because he was a military member earlier in life, and it seemed fitting from chatting with those who knew him better than I did.

5. Nothing I can really do about that. I'm certain at a faster tempo it wouldn't seem as much of a bore.

6. I hate Finale and GPO as a combination. If you listen to my other concert band pieces here on YC (Riverside, Fields of the Heartland, and Dance of the Hills), you'll hear a bit of a difference in the balance. The others I just forced through Finale and let the program do all the work. Unfortunately, this led to horrible imbalance in my opinion, so I tried something different that took ALOT of time to complete. I set each part, one by one, to solo, and had it render the audio file for each part separately. So, for this, I had 22 audio files. I then loaded them all, one by one, into Audacity, which is a free mixing program. The great thing about Audacity is I found it simple to use. I had much finer control over volume and "placement" of each part. It's something that took me about ten hours to finally get done, but the first time always takes forever. Then I just remixed them into one file.

Don't worry; I don't find your reply to be rude at all. I know there are people who like Swearingen, and those who find his music and style too repetitive to deal with. I also know there are people who like having that form pretty much laid out for them, and then they can just write it in that style. We all start out copying, to some degree, what others have done. I'm certain if you listen to all four of the concert band pieces on this website that I posted in order, you'll see there's some progression away from the common form out there. This was certainly not as crazy as Dance of the Hills, but I think it serves it's purpose as a memorial piece. Anyways, those who go "that's a great piece" tend to overlook things that others such as yourself may not (not that you don't think it's a good piece, just you are more critical because you've probably done a lot of reviewing of scores like I have).

Besides, I don't think there's much leeway in the Grade 3 and Grade 3.5 categories (Dance of the Hills would probably count as a 4 due to the constant shifting or time signatures and chromatic/tritone tendencies), and I the music that I'm comfortable writing consistently falls in the 3 and 3.5 range. I don't aim for it, I'm just not established enough in my own style to push my limits all the time.

Returning the favor. <img src="http://network.youngcomposers.com/elgg/ipb/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif" alt=";)" />

Wow, just about everything here was working for me man. ...Sheesh. Nice piece. Love the appogiatura in your main melody, the ostinati are workin' for me, the "outside" chords like your flat 7s and whatnot are so tasteful you barely notice them, your development pace, the contrasting sections...and so on. Again I love it.

Couple things I want to share with you.

1- I'm a trumpet player. I'm not a big military advocate or anything, but music is music. And Taps has a huge emotional association with it. I think you need to drop the snare or else put him on a roll and let the trumpet section play echo taps rubato. Putting it in time makes it lose a lot of its intimacy that makes Taps the powerful musical statement that it is. IMO of course.

2- I feel like at 40 that something other than the ostinato + melody could have been going on there to increase the level of activity at that point. Or maybe have more bass in the ww soli. Or it could be the balance of the recording not giving enough to the clarinets (which would IRL be much louder). I'm actually betting on the latter.

3- Pg 18: I think more than the alto voices need to do that response figure. It's a stronger statement than that.

4- Last note on the piece: Oh man, I SO want to hear a fuller, deeper, rich chord than you gave me. Like a full triad in the trombones with a very low third and doubled octaves in the tuba or something. Haha. It felt like you kinda left the tuba out to dry on that one.

5- No timpani? Or auxilliary percussion (namely suspended cymbal)?

6- Get with a good trumpet player to explain how a valved gliss works, and then get with a horn player and ask him to demonstrate a rip. I don't think it works in real life the way you think it does. French horns don't really gliss, they rip, and it's hard to do small-interval rips and get the effect. Trumpets can rip, but it doesn't work like on horn. We usually gliss. <strong>A valved gliss is not simply doing a fast scale.</strong> It's choking the slides off with a half-valve and playing a choked siren up to the note, sometimes lifting them up to get more sound out. We can half-valve gliss, but it doesn't sound like the "beeerrrrrap" that a trombone can do. Where you wrote glissandi for the French horns and trumpets, rips would be the only option, and they are much faster and harsher than glisses. You'd probably have to score higher object notes in the horns to get the effect of a nice rip: the wider the interval and higher the object note the stronger the rip. What gets you the sound of a rip is the notes of the harmonic series sounding as the brass player slurs upward. I haven't heard a software patch that has gotten a brass rip right, so don't rely on that.

Hope that helps. Nice job, again.

Get with a good trumpet player to explain how a valved gliss works, and then get with a horn player and ask him to demonstrate a rip. I don't think it works in real life the way you think it does. French horns don't really gliss, they rip, and it's hard to do small-interval rips and get the effect. Trumpets can rip, but it doesn't work like on horn. We usually gliss. A valved gliss is not simply doing a fast scale. It's choking the slides off with a half-valve and playing a choked siren up to the note, sometimes lifting them up to get more sound out. We can half-valve gliss, but it doesn't sound like the "beeerrrrrap" that a trombone can do. Where you wrote glissandi for the French horns and trumpets, rips would be the only option, and they are much faster and harsher than glisses. You'd probably have to score higher object notes in the horns to get the effect of a nice rip: the wider the interval and higher the object note the stronger the rip. What gets you the sound of a rip is the notes of the harmonic series sounding as the brass player slurs upward. I haven't heard a software patch that has gotten a brass rip right, so don't rely on that. Hope that helps. Nice job, again.

Good stuff peter, something I forgot to mention in my statement, and Gixander, all i was saying is that it won't kill you by listening to other composers in other websites, if anything, it would definitely open your horizons from the mostly boring stuff at barnhouse. Don't get me wrong, they have great music, but they don't accept anything too crazy musically, (atonality, polytonality, etc) i have no idea why, but that's why a lot of the stuff there sounds the same. All I'm saying. and I know that the other sites only show the first page of the score, but hey it won't kill you, but i can't force you either, that's a choice you must make on your own. Also, I like Peter's suggestion about no percussion taps, maybe that would take away the cheesiness i felt when i listened to it.

Peter_W:

1. I've had the same thought, and I was thinking of the same solution of having the snare match the clarinets by doing a roll for the same length. Problem that I'm worried about is that if I go into a day 1 rehearsal and go "okay, three of you, play this rubato..." that I may get something that sounds horrible. I'll see what happens. Then again, pitting three trumpets against one another also loses alot of intimacy from the original Taps (although IIRC the original melody that Taps was derived from was in time itself).

2. It is the balance of the recording that stinks. I can't get the Clarinets to come out like they should. Those bouncing notes would be much heavier, especially with our group playing them.

3. It is stronger than that, but our two horns are, one again, more powerful than the audio.

4. It'll sound better in real life. For some reason that last note is not wanting to render like it should. We don't have two tubas, and I've never been able to double myself at the same time, so that's unfortunately out of the question. However, our Bari Sax is indeed louder, as is our Bass Clarinet (same problem as above with the standard Bb Clarinets), so that'll at least make up for that. Our Trombones are also pretty powerful when it comes to those final pops such as this.

5. This goes back to what I've said a lot. If I were to make this ready to submit for publication, I'd be expanding the instrumentation to what it should be. There'd be timpani and alot more percussion. But we only have two consistent players, and this was written with a specific band in mind.

6. Well, my response was meant to be more of a "yes, what I wrote is possible" as opposed to "this is how it works, and I'm right". If it came off that way, woops. The years I've played brass instruments, I had maybe two or three rips to deal with, but I get a few of them playing winds. It's not simply doing a fast scale, agreed, but it's enough to at least mimic to some degree to the point that what I wrote is not impossible, and can be done. Of course, I ignore the program when those come, because they sound like crap from GPO for some reason. In response to your final statement from this number, I haven't heard a software patch that has gotten an actual gliss right to begin with!

MichaelAlex:

Oh, trust me, I listen to everything on lots of sites. I grew up studying concert band music, so the first three years out of high school I was happy to be able to see the music from Barnhouse. I tend these days to avoid Barnhouse (though from time to time I'll see what the newest stuff is). I'm starting to move to where I don't pay attention to anything, not because it's not valuable to me as a composer to see what everyone else is doing, but because I don't want to emulate them. I'm starting to get to an understanding of what I like, and what works that way; this was the kind of music our group liked to play, so I matched it. I apparently made it sound like those were all I listened to, which thankfully I don't. And, probably even more thankfully, I'm totally ignoring form and just looking for pieces that pull off something I may be trying to (such as a figure or run) and then wonder how I could match that to what I'm trying to do. Sorta to see how it worked for them and then wonder how I can get it to work for me.

I don't know if the cheesiness of the Taps section would go away if removing or altering the percussion to a roll was used. It depends on why you found it cheesy. The first reason that I'd think that you'd have to find it cheesy is that it just hits you. No warning there's going to be Taps, just "here it is". If that was the case, then nothing short of removing it all together would fix that.

Gixander-

Re Taps section: Instead of "play this rubato," try telling them "take your time." ...But really, that's the conductor's job, ain't it? Or is that you?

Re Final chord: You don't have two tubas but you do have a euphonium. He could double the octave. They are tenor tubas, after all. I'm not wanting so much volume as I want a full, richly voiced chord. You've got the mid-low area of that chord pretty sparse. Of course, that's just my taste. :P

Re Gliss: No sweat, just wanted to clarify. :) Your rips won't be quite as effective as a wider/higher rip, in case you want more bank for your buck there.

Anyway, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were writing this with a specific ensemble in mind. I know exactly what you're going through! The audio rendition really doesn't matter that much, then. Again, congrats! I enjoyed it.

I added this to my favorites a while ago, it's amazing! I'm only getting a chance to comment now though, sorry for the wait.

I'm not going to go into what I enjoyed about the piece, because that would take forever, and, frankly, would be unhelpful. Just let it be known that I loved the piece. Here's a list of things I would suggest changing (Numbers indicate bar numbers):

1. Even though the clarinets hold the same note from the trumpet solo to the flute solo, the trumpet solo still sounds random, because the feel is completely different in bars 1-2 then bars 3-4. I would suggest having the trumpet play two quarters in bar 2, followed by a half that ties into bar 3 and the solo flute, so that it sort of molds together more, or take the trumpet part out completely. Your call though, as with all the suggestions.

5. Really picky, but I didn't like the oboe grace notes before the whole note.

7. All the oboes should come in here, beat one, and all the first flutes, beat three. Otherwise the soloists will not be heard over the entire band. I think the tenor should have the melody, because the first alto/trumpet would not be heard over everyone, especially the second/third trumpet. Also, tenor blends better with trumpet than alto does in my opinion.

11. The sax part needs to come out more against the slurred winds. Give the trombones eighths instead of quarters, or try making it go the opposite direction of the winds (if the winds go up in pitch, have the saxes go down)

18. Would the tenor part be better on bari? Also, what is 'lighter' supposed to indicate. I don't understand.

19. Why the oboe in a trumpet solo? I wouldn't have it, even if it blends well. Also, I'd take off the mute.

40. Make it a wind melody, and have the alto and horn switch parts. Speaking of horns, they're almost always in unison, give the firsts and seconds different parts more often!

78. This is the only glissando I actually liked, the ones in the middle of melodies were unnecessary in my opinion, and mostly random. Glissandos should be used at the end of phrases and held and the only thing going on like this one.

99. The wind part at 99 and the brass before it were too contrasting, I didn't like the transition.

101. I didn't like how the flute solo stopped and started, I liked it better at bar 3 when they were both playing throughout the entire solo. Nice oboe part.

110. Very boring two bars, which I found useless as well. Was it too weird to switch to the trumpet solo without them? Otherwise take them out.

135. I didn't feel the oboe solo ended. I was expecting a different whole note but it just tied and caught me off guard.

149. Don't make this one a solo, and probably take out the mute.

Score: I think you need to number the first bar of each page, just at the top of the conductors score. Also, I think this piece could benefit from a bassoon or contrabassoon/contrabass clarinet for extra bass parts. But this was written for your band correct? So I guess you don't have any of the three?

On the swearingen note, this does sound a lot like one of his melodies, something he would come up with I should say.

Great work! I'm sure your friend would be honored if he heard this. It's an amazing piece, definitely in my top three.

First off, I have to post this in two replies, because the system won't let me quote the way I want to in order to respond effectively. Sorry.

Before I start answering each of your points, be mindful that the audio file render part of Finale ALWAYS sucks, especially for band. The Clarinets are too soft, as are the Saxes.

Since "adding" parts has come up alot, here's the rundown on what is going to end up happening. First off, the instrumentation seen on many of my scores works the best with the concert band I am a part of, and therefore, have access to. While I would love to have an expanded instrumentation, and am planning on rescoring most of my pieces to a symphonic band setting (which would be what most of you are questioning why I didn't in the first place), my first priority is to get a functional piece for what I have available.

The parts that I would add to this composition would be Eb Alto Clarinet, Bb Contrabass Clarinet, 2 Bassoons, Contrabassoon, 2 more Horns (to make 4), another Trombone (to make three), Bass Trombone, Timpani, Mallet Percussion (which would include Chimes and Bells, perhaps), and at least two distinct Auxiliary Percussion parts (I'm still debating on what percussive instruments to use). That adds a lot of weight to the lower lines, and would require me to rebalance the Horn parts and the Baritone/Euphonium part. What currently sits as the Euphonium part would probably end up as 3rd Trombone, and there'd be more countermelody in the Horns and Euphonium as a result.

Unfortunately, I have to work with what I have as a start.

I added this to my favorites a while ago, it's amazing! I'm only getting a chance to comment now though, sorry for the wait.

I'm not going to go into what I enjoyed about the piece, because that would take forever, and, frankly, would be unhelpful. Just let it be known that I loved the piece. Here's a list of things I would suggest changing (Numbers indicate bar numbers):

Actually, I'd love to hear what you enjoyed about the piece. I find it helpful to know as much about what people think about a piece. If there's a problem, that'll lead to discussion to either fix it or create a new solution. If there's something you like, then I'd like to figure out why it works so I can keep doing it.

1. Even though the clarinets hold the same note from the trumpet solo to the flute solo, the trumpet solo still sounds random, because the feel is completely different in bars 1-2 then bars 3-4. I would suggest having the trumpet play two quarters in bar 2, followed by a half that ties into bar 3 and the solo flute, so that it sort of molds together more, or take the trumpet part out completely. Your call though, as with all the suggestions.

I may take that out, but it seemed very sparse every time I tried to remove it. I wanted to have the Chimes have those notes, and let them ring. That would sound ten times better, so I'm still debating on this part.

5. Really picky, but I didn't like the oboe grace notes before the whole note.

I know this will sound better in real life. As I stated before, I rendered each part separately, so this helped because I went back and was able to hear, by itself, what the Oboe sounded like. For some reason, those grace notes jammed together right at the start of the measure and sounded like uber crap.

7. All the oboes should come in here, beat one, and all the first flutes, beat three. Otherwise the soloists will not be heard over the entire band. I think the tenor should have the melody, because the first alto/trumpet would not be heard over everyone, especially the second/third trumpet. Also, tenor blends better with trumpet than alto does in my opinion.

For some reason when I copied over the Oboe part it didn't bring over the word "All". I might have accidentally set it to a different stave (if you aren't careful the arrow will point to the stave above or below and it won't copy right...but thanks for catching that). The tuttis: oboes start on measure 8 beat 1, Flute 2 on measure 7 beat 1, and Flute 1 on measure 9 beat 2.

Don't forget that the Horns also have the melody for measures 7-10. To help understand why I felt this would work better for us, please note that we have 1 Tenor Sax, and 2 each of both Altos. We also have two of both Horns, but in a final version, I'll keep it in mind to change it. I'll probably be coming back to let you all know how things are going as we head into the fall season's practices, and once we've had the initial performance, I'll be ready to rework it to a better scoring for a more balanced effect.

11. The sax part needs to come out more against the slurred winds. Give the trombones eighths instead of quarters, or try making it go the opposite direction of the winds (if the winds go up in pitch, have the saxes go down)

18. Would the tenor part be better on bari? Also, what is 'lighter' supposed to indicate. I don't understand.

I'm trying to find a better countermelody that goes the opposite direction. Granted, the Saxes already are going opposite of the winds (Winds have a general curve down, Saxes up).

As far as the Tenor part, I don't want it to have a heavier lower line until later. It's sort of a building up thing.

19. Why the oboe in a trumpet solo? I wouldn't have it, even if it blends well. Also, I'd take off the mute.

I, personally, like the Oboe and muted Trumpet together. To each his own, I guess.

40. Make it a wind melody, and have the alto and horn switch parts. Speaking of horns, they're almost always in unison, give the firsts and seconds different parts more often!

There are a few sections where I do need to expand the Horn parts, but there aren't really a lot of options with what I have. I'll work on that. They aren't really "almost always" in unison, except on rhythm. It's usually that countermelody at the start of the melody in the faster sections for eight measures where they are the same. I'll fix that to spread out the harmony elements.

78. This is the only glissando I actually liked, the ones in the middle of melodies were unnecessary in my opinion, and mostly random. Glissandos should be used at the end of phrases and held and the only thing going on like this one.

I don't like glissandos from Finale...they are horrible. Sure, they get the point across, but they sound horrible executed. I'm going to wait until the rehearsals to see what this sounds like in real life. I also don't believe Glissandos should be used at end of phrases. That's like saying having woodwinds runs should only be at the end of a phrase...it should be used when it benefits the music, which you can't tell until an actual attempt at it even with having Finale available.

99. The wind part at 99 and the brass before it were too contrasting, I didn't like the transition.

They aren't that contrasting. From a sound standpoint, the brass should fade away enough that the winds seem to come from out of the previous brass chord (I can't think of the right way to put that). Also, the chords are pretty much the same (concert Db-F-A-C for the first, then just the Db-F-Ab...so it's not some random resolution). The two flow together, but unless you meant it's sounds weird, once again I'll just leave it as "Finale sucks on output, I'll wait until I hear the live version".

101. I didn't like how the flute solo stopped and started, I liked it better at bar 3 when they were both playing throughout the entire solo. Nice oboe part.

It's actually playing against the Oboe for the first four measures of the solo. The second and fourth measures of the Oboe solo are static, so the Flute solo starts moving, and when the Oboe is moving, the Flute part stays static. This is a common tactic. Otherwise, you'll have two solos fighting each other, and from what I can tell, this seems to confuse people as to which is the actual solo. So, by having the Oboe start, and then the Flute respond in the background when the Oboe is holding out a note, listeners know which is the dominant solo, and therefore, the melody.

I didn't have to worry about this at the beginning because the real melody doesn't start until measure 7, so while the Oboe does play a countermelody to the Flute at the beginning, there's not enough time to confuse people since at the start of a piece, everything is confusing.

And now...for part 2 of the response.

110. Very boring two bars, which I found useless as well. Was it too weird to switch to the trumpet solo without them? Otherwise take them out.

When I did it without those two measures, it did sound rushed. Perhaps I'll add some bells or something to this section in the symphonic version that will give this section more life.

135. I didn't feel the oboe solo ended. I was expecting a different whole note but it just tied and caught me off guard.

That's the point. It's meant to catch you off-guard. Plus, it's not a horrible note to hold out. It's a C, and the reason I continued the melody until that pitch was because I am switching back to F major from Ab major, and the C is a focal point for both. For Ab, it's the major third, and for F, it's the dominant. By shifting focus to the C, it allows for a much smoother transition to the upcoming key change.

149. Don't make this one a solo, and probably take out the mute.

Upon review, I need to take this out so it's just the Flutes and Oboes. Don't know why I left that in. Shouldn't be there. Woops. Nice catch.

Score: I think you need to number the first bar of each page, just at the top of the conductors score. Also, I think this piece could benefit from a bassoon or contrabassoon/contrabass clarinet for extra bass parts. But this was written for your band correct? So I guess you don't have any of the three?

Most scores for concert band, as far as I can tell, don't actually have measure numbers at the start of each page. And for extra parts, I mentioned that above so you should already know what I'm planning on doing.

On the swearingen note, this does sound a lot like one of his melodies, something he would come up with I should say.

Great work! I'm sure your friend would be honored if he heard this. It's an amazing piece, definitely in my top three.

It does sound like one of his pieces, but thankfully I went through to check what I could find, and I can't find it, so I'm good. I'm not certain if he was our trumpeter's favorite composer of concert band music, but Swearingen certainly knows how to work those brass parts.

So apparently quoting quotes doesn't work, so I'm going to try and make this as understandable as possible, my apologies if you get lost.

About the score problems: I figured you were writing for what you have, and that's great! Don't add bassoon then and forget what I said. As for the numbers, I just find it easier to make reviews with them on the page, I wasn't talking about the conductor, I'm just being self-centered.

About bar 7: I didn't realize the horns had the melody, and that combined with your large number of altos would let it be heard, so never mind about changing it to tenor.

About bar 19: I also think that oboe and muted trumpet sound great together, I just don't like the oboe in this particular situation, because it's supposed to be a trumpet solo, and adding the oboe ruins that. Also, since it's not tutti the oboe isn't really needed as the melody will be heard over the few winds you have playing.

About horns and glissandos: I guess I did over exaggerate a bit with the almost always in unison. Do whatever needs to be done to have them heard, which I think you've done well already. I'll have to check. As for glissandos, it's a great idea to check at the rehearsal if it works or not, then decide. And yes, they do suck in finale, I was trying to picture it in real life. Most sound qualities of finale aren't that great, as you and I have both noticed many a time!

About Swearingen: I was saying that it could've came out of his head, not that it exists and you've copied - it's quite original. And I said your friend would be honored by what YOU did for him, this piece, not about Swearingen

Anything I've left unanswered, you've agreed with me or you can assume I've agreed with you. You've obviously put lots of thought into this, great job! I'll try and post what I like about the piece when I have audio tomorrow.

Well, I do think this is the most likely piece of mine to attempt to get published, so I do want to get it nearer to that status. So, I will be enlarging the instrumentation as I laid out earlier.

The "solo" you speak of isn't really a Trumpet solo with the Oboe added over it. I wanted that specific effect of the Trumpet/Oboe together at that point. It's a quick and easy way to have an airy effect while still having a small piercing effect with the two. It should work for what I've used it for.

Finale's GPO is more geared towards Orchestra instrumentation, and thankfully I've been able to use it somewhat to create a "decent" concert band setup. The glissandos are crap, because it's a straight glissando, which is only doable by a Trombone in reality. I could go back and, for an audio only score where I'm not using it for parts or a score, just for the audio, write in notes in small durations to make it sound "better". Can't take the place of human randomness though.

The only reason I mentioned looking through what I could of Swearingen's pieces is that I had the same thought. "Dang, this sounds like something he'd write." So I went to look just to make certain I hadn't accidentally taken some melody or countermelody. Thankfully, I hadn't.

And to be honest, there wasn't really that much thought. It just came out and I wrote it and then threw it onto the computer. It took less than 48 hours from start to finish, but that's what happens when an event resonates with you.

Catchy, nice transitions

So, I've changed the title to "Soaring Against the Sky", and have made a few alterations, but nothing big for now. I got Finale to do "correct" chromatic glissandos, and redid the recording, and then layered the old version and this new one together (I was attempting to make it sound like more than one person playing so the glissandos weren't exact, and it sort of worked). Everything we've talked about is good to go or has a note to watch out for it during rehearsals, which will take place on the 24th of August.

In response to the whole glissando problem we've all had, I knew there was a setting somewhere for it. In Human Playback Preferences, if you go to the selection for glissandos, you'll see it defaults to Automatic. To get this effect, you just set it to Chromatic instead. I fudged Automatic and Chromatic together because I think that's more realistic (as no two people ever play the gliss the same exact way). Gives it a nice effect. I also tried to dumb down how loud the percussion appeared to be during the Taps, and I might have them cross it out.

Once we have performed it, I'll be going back to rework it to a more "standardized" instrumentation, so any changes between here and there will certainly show up here.

The reason I'm bumping this to some extent is that we've had three rehearsals over the piece, noting various things throughout it. We will be performing it on October 10th at our first concert of the season. I will try to get someone to get a decent/good recording of it, because the audio file certainly doesn't do it justice.

Okay, let me give you all who have been watching the earlier conversations on "Soaring Against the Wind" some update as to what's gone on. The opening sounds great, though we noticed a few things as far as the dynamics go. The opening crescendo between p and mf and then back to p in the Clarinets and Saxes comes out unbalanced, but this was mainly because of the different idea in everyone's head of what p and mf should be. Clarinets usually overpower Saxes in most circumstances I've seen, so I'm assuming that they were sticking with the idea they needed to be louder. So, we had our 1st chair Clarinet play the low E as soft as possible, and said that's where it needs to start for the p. It came out perfectly after that. Once they figured out it was only going to be a solo Flute at the beginning, they backed off quickly and it came off perfectly. The Oboe isn't as hard to hear, because it certainly pierces on its own, so I had no worries there.

And there was a neat thing that happened that I have to alter in the score. The grace note into the C on the flute in measure 17 is written as a Bb, but it was accidentally played as a B natural last night. And I think that just works wonderfully.

The Oboe is going to keep the solo at rehearsal 18, and the muted trumpet is being relegated to a cue for the Oboe. I know that tends to conflict with most people's ideas in the past, where it seems like the Trumpet should be the main instrument being featured at this point, but even as a solo and with the mute, it didn't blend as well as it might have. Certainly not as well as the Oboe did by itself (we went back and forth for a few minutes on this).

At [40], it got horribly unbalanced. The woodwinds were trying to keep overtop of the Brass/Lower Winds syncopation, but it was one of those things where I had to tell them just because those are staccato does not mean hit them really hard. There's not any accent there, so it still needs to be light. It's been alright, and it's getting better. The two parts of this section I was thoroughly worried about came out fine. The Trumpets in measure 43 switch to the chordal feature with the D-E-D-E-C movement up top, and thankfully they didn't overpower the Winds, even with the Winds having been moved out of the way with the end of their held over notes from the previous measure in anticipation of overpowering. The Horns, also, surprised me by bringing out the countermelody of sorts they have at this point (it's the same as the previous section, but in this instance only the Horns have it), and it was heard perfectly.

Ah, yes, the rips at [63]. In a computer audio...they suck. Even when you set it to chromatic glissandos in Finale, they still...suck. However, in real life, they come out great. I specifically asked what those who have them thought of them, and they've said they aren't hard and actually enhance that section. However, we are still debating on whether to do an instant glissando (at the start of the beat), or a more delayed glissando like most bands do (where it almost feels like a massive chromatic grace note).

In 97 and 98, where the low brass and saxes have the chords which drop from F major to F major over Eb major to a Db augmented 7th (the Trumpets are still on F, A, C, and the basses have Db, so...enjoy a Db-F-A-C chord!), we had to make certain no one was rushing, so it got to the point where the conductor is giving those notes at the end of the fourth beat. And it was a perfect handover to the winds, so it all worked out in the end.

Before submitting it for publication (which everyone in the band thinks I'm an idiot for not having done already, and also those who know publishers have suggested Barnhouse...so I guess I've done something right), I'm trying to determine what the best instrument to cue the Oboe solo in. I currently have it cued in the 1st Alto, but I'm wondering if our band director might like to try giving it to the Euphonium/Baritone instead (obviously an octave down). It would sit comfortably in the middle of the range, and shouldn't be too much of a problem. More on that to come as we go (since we'll have an Oboe, we probably won't attempt it too much).

For the first time in his life, or at least so he says, our band director said he wanted the percussion to play LOUDER at [128]. Interesting. It did work wonderfully, and when we hit [135] I suggested we try something different with the percussion part. It's the same in-time problem, but I managed to find a real life work-around. Take the snares off, and drop to underneath the Trumpets instead of matching them. So that worked out fine, and even better, we've got our own little field drum sound going.

Everything that happened in the earlier section is done again here between 148 and 190. At 191-194, we tried to slow down, and I had the distinct pleasure of being able to say "Congratulations! You all just got ran over by the train!" in reference to them blowing through the caesura. There has to be just about a half-second of complete silence after the caesura before hitting that chord at 195.

And on the final note on the final note, pun intended, those playing that chord on the third/fourth beat of the final measure was always a worry for everyone, but we had more than enough weight to hear the difference. Plus, our director wants the final chord to build after that, as one of those unwritten crescendos that would start at ff, then when the powerful underneath chord shows up on the third beat, to start building up to almost fff. Granted, it's hard to describe in words, but I'm certain everybody understands what I meant.

The band is certainly happy with it, and I'm still getting congrats and compliments on having written it.