Maseuayotl

Maseuayotl

Op.31

Remembranza indigena.

This year Mexico celebrates the Bicentenary, (two hundred years of the Independence and A hundred years of the Revolution) much has been said about it, that we must celebrate our freedom and we must do something good for our country etc... I don't know if all this Patriotic rumble influenced me or not, but I decided that I should compose a work with a Mexican feeling because I have none in my portfolio. (check my other orch. works: Op.12, Op.24, Op.25)

Due to I don't like Mariachis and most of post-columbine local music I chose something older:

The Concheros in the "Acueducto" - Queretaro, Mex.

This work is based on the rhythms of "Concheros", these are dancers who keep performing the original rituals of the Chichimecas Indians. I don't belong to this people but I have seen them many times. You can see them on this

The "Conchero" rhythms are basically a variety of 12/8 beats, performed by the lead drum called "Huehuetl" and the rest of dancers follow the beat with other percussions called "Coyoleras" (which are a sort of sleigh bells made of vegetable seeds that they carry on their feet) and "Sonajas" some shakers (sometimes made of metal).To give the true Conchero feeling to this work I do call for these 3 percussions (which are not difficult to find here in Mexico) the rest of content would have to be created by me because the Conchero music doesn't include very much elements but rhythm.I found this project difficult to achieve, because my personal style is usually far from these matters and perhaps not very much "compatible" with the ethnic element I planned to use. I think is normal if you feel some kind of conflict between different segments of the work, first because to this ethnic music has been rarely taken to a symphonic level, and because I was not able to mix both styles as good as I thought. Maybe you will say that this is nothing but one of my common works with the ethnic percussions added, could be truth, but the "Concheros" music doesn't have very much to offer either so, "fill" the rest with my personal music was the only option.

Other aspects I wanted to follow was to write a piece without a clear war segment, (because I very much tent to fall into that) for this I decided not to use the snare drum at all, kinda worked but you tell me... (Remove the xylophone too.)

About the Genre I handle here I don't think any of you know this genre well enough to write an extended critic (unless you tell me you know Carlos Chavez Sinfonia No.2 "India")... but I don't mean I don't want you comments, I do want the other kind of critic, the one from a person is not used to this and listen to it like any other audience.

About the Recording:

I created the samples of the Conchero percussions by editing samples of tenor drum (for the huehuetl) common sleigh-bells and shakers for the others.

Harp, Timpani, Bass drum, Cymbals and Tam-tam by GPO v.1

Ethnic percussions loaded into FL Studio working a VST

Rest of orchestra by EDIROL Orchestral.

Sequenced and Recorded on Sibelius 6.1

Note: These Indians have nothing to do with the ones you see in the western movies

Maseuayotl

First of all, I love the first two pages of illustrations ^_^

First of all, I agree with you on the fact the Mexican ethnic music is tricky to symphonise. Wait, is that even a word, symphonise (meh!! :P )??

Overall, it's pretty nice - I loved that moment from 4:30 onwards, it put me in mind of a jolly saunter through the seaside. I totally got engaged in that Mexican feel. I think a overlying comment is that the strings overpower everything else - their texture's often too thick for any clarity along with what could be excessive reverb??. I suspect that your samples are also having trouble coping, though the sound quality's actually quite reasonable - I'm presuming it isn't MIDI??

Anyway, it's a pretty good shot at symphonising a ethnic piece, I've tried myself, and this is a admirable attempt. I'd suggest that you go for a very harmonic and light stucture and texture to make it sound more authentic and 'Mexican', but that's just my opinion, and TBH, I'm a complete noob at commenting on orchestral works myself :D Not much else that I'd point out, enjoyed the music, and thanks for sharing!!

Oo you did comment... Thank you.

The Reverb is a problem because it drastically changes from one speakers or headphones to others, besides the String section is the worst part in EDIROL Orchestral, I will surely create more renders, I'm only waiting for what you comment, and make a better render.

I could show you some segment I deleted, it had simpler harmoniy and sounded perhaps more mexican, but it was taking down the quality of this piece, I removed it (about 60-70bars) it was in page 36 after the break.. Actually I re-wrote that part several times until I found the next A minor ambient that worked very fine to go bak to the Dm I really had to repeat.

Thanks for listening

The orchestration sounds great, I really like this piece although I'm not sure how mexican the actual piece sounds apart from the percussion.

Maybe I'm just thinking too much about the sorta music that would accompany speedy gonzales though.

But I did like it

I have updated the recording with a new render with less Reverb on the strings, I think will be more clear to you...

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I'm not sure how mexican the actual piece sounds apart from the percussion.

The situation was....

When we talk is about Mexico one imagines something like this:

But actually I wanted to do it about this:

Now I see this work ended being something like this:

The antique element right in the middle of a modern ambient

(I used to be the Pianist in a Restaurant is/was about 200mts from these arcs)

EDIT:

The current score... I see I forgot to switch on the transposition in Sibelius before making the PDF, do you want me to leave this score in concert pitch for a few days, before uploading the final one ?

Well, first... I think your woodwinds at times are overpowered by the remainder of the orchestration. I would recommend supporting them just a tad bit better. You have a very powerful wall of sound here. Second, I tend to agree with madman, this doesn't sound Mexican to me. When I think of ancient mexico.. I tend to think of the Aztecs, Toltecs, Olmecs, and Mayans and NOT the Spanish conquerors (I am about 1/32 native american myself.) This has a strong European influence to it - and I think that really shows a lot. I like your ideas here and I love the rhythm at measure 138. Good work here!

I'll check the woodwinds, sometimes I feel they will be drowned, but I check it..

I guess I cannot hide the European influence on this one, like I said before, a composition is the vivid image of the composer and might fake other things but not when composing...

What can I do now , not much, is already made, and is not bad.

EDIT:

"Maseuayotl" means "Dance", in "Nahuatl" the language of the original dancers and remains in use by their contemporary decendants, I don't speak it, I found it in a Nahuatl-Spanish dictionary...

EDIT2:

I update the score to transposing score

Massive. The orchestation sounds impressive, but its grandure makes it almost organ-like, and I think it is quite heavy for the ears. maybe too much. I loved the move to the tritone, and as usual the harmonies are interesting. The rhythmic section was too much of the same for me, close to cheesy. Just played by fancy native instruments is not changing that fact... The thing as a whole is a bit too big and overwhelming. I think that is whats keeping reviews away. Its great!

I agree on two things: Drowned out woodwinds and the loudness..

Other than that, I think it's great!

*checks again*

Yep, that's it.

Hekla

What a minute, you mean you don't like a fff full orchestra ? (you would be scared by my Op.20 ) or what is what you call "loudness" or "heavy for the ears" ? that's precisely the cool thing for me

Now, heckel, you say woodwinds are drowned and Jason says are overpowered

Jaap, I know the rhythms are repetitive but that supposed to be the purpose of the work, I think this is like "conchero beats" + "a sys work"...

I will consider the woodwins matter in future projects, but this is the first time I recieve a "too loud" critic

(so I suppose this one I posted in electronic is too loud too)

Thanks for commenting.

I can't really add anything to what has already been said about this piece apart from I like it a lot! Sure there's one or two problems with it (as has already been pointed out), but the quality of the writing overcomes them. Maybe it does sound a bit overwhelming in parts but that's easily sorted. The lack of Mexican feel is not so easy to deal with, but overall as a piece of music - it's good.

7 up ?

newport, thanks for commenting, I think the problems in the work are the problems I have as a person in the society, I lack of mexican feeling most of the times, and kinda belong somewhere else

.. or ..... I AM, the new kind of mexican ? (and my work)

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Dark, I knew you were a woman of few words but now a woman of few numbers ? you're next comment will be a dot with a comma :D

your first comment to me, in my Op.24 where you said it was decent music, I though it was short already, but now I see that was a super comment (thanks)

what is that "7 up ?" means anyway ? that you liked it ?

let me call you son to translate.... Grahaaaaaaaammmm !!!

Otro mexicano por acá!

I liked it, your orchestral writing is really good, and you were quite effective at setting a very specific atmosphere.

The "concheros" section is really exciting and did make me think of some Chavez or Revueltas..

I have to say, however, it does come out sounding more rooted in the European tradition than with a strong Mexican drive.

I don't have much bad things to say about it apart from that, though.. It's a worthy contribution to the Bicentenario celebrations and an exciting piece.

-Andrew

Hello, Andrew (I have posted in you introductory topic)

Thanks for commenting, so you do know Chavez Sinfonia India ? In this piece I wanted to recall the Concheros only, not the whole bunch of indians, Aztecas mayas etc :D so the material to work was few, the rhythm only, I ignored some stuff because I saw some videos of concheros but their music had Jaranas, and other little guitars, playing circles like, C, F, C, G , that's obviously a post influence and not belong to the original dance, so I took the rhythms only, and the rest, I had to fill it with the own style, which its yes, more European.

Hello, Andrew (I have posted in you introductory topic)

Thanks for commenting, so you do know Chavez Sinfonia India ? In this piece I wanted to recall the Concheros only, not the whole bunch of indians, Aztecas mayas etc :D so the material to work was few, the rhythm only, I ignored some stuff because I saw some videos of concheros but their music had Jaranas, and other little guitars, playing circles like, C, F, C, G , that's obviously a post influence and not belong to the original dance, so I took the rhythms only, and the rest, I had to fill it with the own style, which its yes, more European.

Yeah, I love Chavez's work! I see, well I really liked the rhythmic drive in that middle section.

Where did you learn orchestration? You're quite good.

I went to a ugly kindergarden, then to a uglier primary school, then to the ugliest high school, where I learned nothing

What I know I learned in my room (self taught)

Wow, that's impressive, our own veritable Takemitsu..

Well, keep up the good work, I really liked your piece.

Well, Thank you, the only bad thing is that nobody knows me, do you have "conections" with someone "usefull" (Diemecke etc) ?

I plan to contact Sergio Cardenas, he was the conductor of Filarmonica de Queretaro years ago, he's very good, but I don't know where he may be now, current conductor or the local orchestra is very bad, besides, the overall corruption affects the art too,

Well, Thank you, the only bad thing is that nobody knows me, do you have "conections" with someone "usefull" (Diemecke etc) ?

I plan to contact Sergio Cardenas, he was the conductor of Filarmonica de Queretaro years ago, he's very good, but I don't know where he may be now, current conductor or the local orchestra is very bad, besides, the overall corruption affects the art too,

Isn't Cárdenas in Mexico City somehow involved in the ENM? I think so..

I've met Alondra de la Parra, you should totally send in your piece for her Young Composer's Competition next year..

Apart from that I only know Arturo Márquez.. But he's too withdrawn in his own music to pull any favors with conductors.. :P

Really ? you know Marquez ? I only know his famous Danzon No.2 but nothing else..

Thanks for the advice, I will search for this Alondra

Really ? you know Marquez ? I only know his famous Danzon No.2 but nothing else..

Thanks for the advice, I will search for this Alondra

Yeah, I'm studying with him! You should find some of his other danzones, they're good stuff! And his cello concerto!

well I can search but mexico drown its own good artists, I can find 50 hours of Vicente Fernandez per one minute of Marquez.

So you study with him, bring him to the Forum, not just for my piece but the whole community, even if he would like to post something, (not a work just to tell something) would be welcomed, look this topic,

That would be great, but he's not really an internet person, he barely even has an e-mail address..!

mmmmm, yeah I begin to picture him :laugh:

Ok, just tell him about this site, he may seem curious about it and come to see.. does he speak english ?