Piano Concerto

Leave then, since I think it's QUACKQUACK AWESOME, just for making all this mess of a thread. I think it's a great thing when art causes people to do stuff, even if the guy fanned the flames some.

Honestly it's a harmless little piece and the guy was obviously expecting this retarded reaction from guys like you. Does it mean you have to like the piece? No. It doesn't.

Just cut the drama.

So I am retarded now.... this becomes prettier by the moment.... Do you happen to know the meaning of retarded? Appaeantly not, if so you would not call me retarded. Perhaps the one who is retarded is you for calling me this way :-)

"Just cut the drama"... this is an open forum of which I still am part. Hence I have the freedom of speech (very important in the US of A I thought) hence I, not only the kinds of you, can also express my opinion, which I do/did/have done same as you.

But ... I took your point.

So I am retarded now.... this becomes prettier by the moment.... Do you happen to know the meaning of retarded? Appaeantly not, if so you would not call me retarded. Perhaps the one who is retarded is you for calling me this way :-)

"Just cut the drama"... this is an open forum of which I still am part. Hence I have the freedom of speech (very important in the US of A I thought) hence I, not only the kinds of you, can also express my opinion, which I do/did/have done same as you.

But ... I took your point.

I'm not saying you're retarded. I said the reaction is retarded, which it is. I wasn't singling you out either, so don't feel so special.

The point is, I don't like drama. You can say whatever you want about the music, yes, you can even say the composer is an idiot. I don't mind. But this has dragged on a little too far, so let's cut it short here.

this is an open forum of which I still am part. Hence I have the freedom of speech (very important in the US of A I thought) hence I, not only the kinds of you, can also express my opinion, which I do/did/have done same as you.

So. He is entitled to have his opinion, and so do you.

His misguided opinions is that he writes the best concerto ever, your misguided opinion is that you start yelling and whining about someones attitude.

You are free to say, do, act based on that attitude. Noone is getting banned for that.

But only to dismiss his piece because of his attitude is uncalled for, and threaten to leave if that is pointed out to you is not only juvenile, it is also missing the point in counteracting the first misguided opinion, namely, that this was the best concerto ever.

You are free to argue with that, I think that is what this site is about, critiquing pieces, preferably constructive critisism. But critique has to be only based on his actual music, not his attitude.

If people no only could quit whining about his presentation (after all, it still is only Internet), and start talking about the actual music...

If people no only could quit whining about his presentation (after all, it still is only Internet), and start talking about the actual music...

Having just listened to it, I was left wondering just what about it caused you, Sachs, to react so putridly. But it's obvious! You said it yourself, you were so put off by the theatrical overconfidence of the poster, that before you even listened to the music you built up this insane hatred for it, when it is clearly the kind of music that should at worst be met with indifference.

Your argument seems to be based on two things: it is not good, and it is not representative of its genre. These statements could be used to describe most any music posted on this site, none of which you have reacted so meanly to. Well, your argument is not good, and it is (see SSC and jcramer) not representative of the site you claim the poster is cheapening.

Perhaps you fancy yourself, like Debussy, a "hater of dilletantes?" Well, bravo, for you surely are. Ask a man what he hates most in others, and he'll tell you what he hates most about himself.

But there are two prerequisites Debussy earned long before he wrote those wonderful articles, ones you have short-cutted.

One was cleverness and novelty. While Debussy's Antidilletante referred to a cute Grieg piece he objected to as "A pink bonbon filled with snow(!)" you, Sachs, are forced to resort to the verbal arsenal employed by your nephew, the toddler.

The second is obvious, isn't it? He was freakin' Debussy!!! Just to be sure, I made a quick survey of your own contributions. No doubt I assumed they would be on a par with your post, as you assumed of the original poster...but like you, I found exactly what I was looking for.

As objectively as I can, I can assure myself and everyone else here that you ain't Debussy.

Your two pieces certainly aren't trash (what music is?) but they certainly don't give you musical "street cred" sufficient to be able to judge anyone else's! No one's going to tear them apart, like you did to the poor solo concerto, but the silent indifference your pieces have been received by should shout to you just how "great" they are!

If you think he's a troll, have the discretion not to feed him this limp bile. Because if he is, (19 replies in a couple days?!) that's exactly what he eats.

Debussy had a palette of colors, both musically and in his criticism, that few have ever had.

I suggest you acquire at least a few basic primary colors before you present yourself as his Second Coming, because the only "palette" you seem to be working with, Sachs, is an industrial toilet of beige and burnt sienna.

:sith:

So. He is entitled to have his opinion, and so do you.

His misguided opinions is that he writes the best concerto ever, your misguided opinion is that you start yelling and whining about someones attitude.

You are free to say, do, act based on that attitude. Noone is getting banned for that.

But only to dismiss his piece because of his attitude is uncalled for, and threaten to leave if that is pointed out to you is not only juvenile, it is also missing the point in counteracting the first misguided opinion, namely, that this was the best concerto ever.

You are free to argue with that, I think that is what this site is about, critiquing pieces, preferably constructive critisism. But critique has to be only based on his actual music, not his attitude.

If people no only could quit whining about his presentation (after all, it still is only Internet), and start talking about the actual music...

The problem here is that the music actually IS his attititude, or better said the music equals his attitude.

The problem here is that the music actually IS his attititude, or better said the music equals his attitude.

Ok. So this IS your opinion you are entitled too. But please don't expect moderators to act on that (yet) ;)

Now back to the music?

Having just listened to it, I was left wondering just what about it caused you, Sachs, to react so putridly. But it's obvious! You said it yourself, you were so put off by the theatrical overconfidence of the poster, that before you even listened to the music you built up this insane hatred for it, when it is clearly the kind of music that should at worst be met with indifference.

Your argument seems to be based on two things: it is not good, and it is not representative of its genre. These statements could be used to describe most any music posted on this site, none of which you have reacted so meanly to. Well, your argument is not good, and it is (see SSC and jcramer) not representative of the site you claim the poster is cheapening.

Perhaps you fancy yourself, like Debussy, a "hater of dilletantes?" Well, bravo, for you surely are. Ask a man what he hates most in others, and he'll tell you what he hates most about himself.

But there are two prerequisites Debussy earned long before he wrote those wonderful articles, ones you have short-cutted.

One was cleverness and novelty. While Debussy's Antidilletante referred to a cute Grieg piece he objected to as "A pink bonbon filled with snow(!)" you, Sachs, are forced to resort to the verbal arsenal employed by your nephew, the toddler.

The second is obvious, isn't it? He was freakin' Debussy!!! Just to be sure, I made a quick survey of your own contributions. No doubt I assumed they would be on a par with your post, as you assumed of the original poster...but like you, I found exactly what I was looking for.

As objectively as I can, I can assure myself and everyone else here that you ain't Debussy.

Your two pieces certainly aren't trash (what music is?) but they certainly don't give you musical "street cred" sufficient to be able to judge anyone else's! No one's going to tear them apart, like you did to the poor solo concerto, but the silent indifference your pieces have been received by should shout to you just how "great" they are!

If you think he's a troll, have the discretion not to feed him this limp bile. Because if he is, (19 replies in a couple days?!) that's exactly what he eats.

Debussy had a palette of colors, both musically and in his criticism, that few have ever had.

I suggest you acquire at least a few basic primary colors before you present yourself as his Second Coming, because the only "palette" you seem to be working with, Sachs, is an industrial toilet of beige and burnt sienna.

:sith:

Yeah Katarina, I am honoured that you consider me as Debussy’s second coming…. Could you please point me out as to where I ever proclaimed to be a second Debussy? In my humble opinion I think I never have mentioned his name, nor ever pretended to be a second Debussy, nor a Bach, Handel, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mahler, Shostakovtich, and so on for that matter.

You point out that my music has received only a limited amount of comments, and surely does not have sufficient street cred to be able to judge anyone else’s.... Well, when it comes to that, I can only refer to your own words earlier in the posting: most of the music – mine included – is only second or third range music. At best we comment eachother’s works, we get some feed-back here and there but that is it. Few of us even make it to the concert program – I have so at least I have been heard “on the street” – so with that comment in mind, we can as well abolish this forum as nobody or practically nobody here, would have the right to judge eachother’s work, which also includes you: having listened to some of your pieces, they are not that new either... a chopineque polonaise, a piece of solo piano which needed to be rewritten for two pianos as it appeared it was not so playable for one piano... it does not give a demonstration either of renovlating the musical word nor of the greatest of technical skills as you would have noticed it straight away that it was not suited to be played on one piano..... neither has your music received that great an amount of comments either ... 1 reply, 12 replies...Ok admittedly,there are more replies than on my music, yet... the amount is not that tremendous either... They are not going to be thorn apart either ...:-)

I never claimed nor have ever claimed to be a good musician nor to be a good composer. If I would have considered myself good, I would not have gone through the struggle which I have gone through with my parents as to the choice of studies I would have to persue: High school of Music of plain university. It is an issue which has not relevant to this forum, only to the extent of how I consider myself as a musician. At best I will have written a tone of music at my closing days which will be locked up in the attic only to be discovered by my grand-children to be thrown away. Why I write? To keep my busy, intellectually? To give my creative skills a platform? For my own satisfaction? I really cannot answer that question, but I like it what I am doing, even if I only do it for myself.

I even agree with whomever wrote that he considered my reaction as theatrical. I am even inclined to say the man is right. I can only say that the score as it is presented here does not reflect the presentation which the person made of himself. Look, it would bother me much less if a Mikis Theodorakis would present himself here stating he is the greatest or one of the greatest living composers around. Why? Because I am pretty much convinced that his music would be up to the standards needed for such an eulogy. And yes... perhaps I am biased as I am a fan of Theodorakis, but that does not mean that I approve everything the man writes. Here you have what I consider to be “crap”, which a lot of people laudate as original and good music.... OK I admit the fault is perhaps mine, but to present yourself as the best composer ever presenting yourself with such a crappy piece of music....

But as JCRAMER and others have indicated...I have made my point. I admit that. I also have made another point, I do not want to belong to a community who shoots the one who opens the debate on a piece and burdens that person with the sins of Israel. Before me there had been nobody who paid any attention to this piece. After me nobody talked about the music but about my attitude.... I wonder who was under discussion here: me for expressing an opinion or this trashy music? I all wish you the best of luck.

Keep in mind that there are other forums such as this one.

Kind regards, for the last time....

Wolfgang Sachs

Sachs, you're taking these guys too personally.

Everyone else, you're waaaay overreacting to a guy who just likes to speak his mind. 1) He thinks the music is garbage 2) he thinks the attitude of the OP is sickening (which it is, if Mr. 12GT is serious, but that's a fact I highly doubt) and 3) he thinks y'all are being a bit prudish to attack him for saying so. Come on, considering the write-up, can you blame anyone for thinking that piece was pretty darn bad?

But again, Sachs, more than that I think you need to take anonymous posters' comments with a can of salt.

But w.e.

yeah, ok, so kudos for inciting people and making a scene, but overall a very boring piece.

Trollololol, lala la la

Can we let this die already?