Help with Motifs..

hi im having alot of problems writing motifs at the moment

i compose 4/4 repetitive dance music and i always find that my leads are never as intresting as the professionals

i just end up spending ages and ages randomly playing on my keyboard trying to get a nice motif however when i do get one its always just OK

i understand about how using 5ths elimintes the possiblity of notes which can work. however there must be more stuff im missing as to writing really memorable motifs

please help me with this as ive had mental block for a while now and its really annoying me.. thank you ;)

Give us an example of what you write and possibly someone might be able to identify what is lackluster about it. Identifying the problem is often the best way to find a solution that represents an improvement.

ok heres a little recording of a few of my tracks.. apologise for the skipping i was just trying to find the right place in the track...

however im not to worried with these ones here.. (however feedback will be most appreciated) its more im not continuing to have more ideas for motifs

im just a bit stuck at producing new materiall..

what techniques are there to writing motifs.. is what i mainly need to know... thank for the reply by the way ;)

umm.. link?

well if your having problems just writing motifs I would suggest looking at the patterns the greats used, for example in Mozart's Turkish March, the motifs he strings together to make the melody use a single pattern that is altered slightly each time it's used in the melody. The pattern goes B A G# A, one thing you could try would be to take the idea, but don't plagarise it, and experiment it, you could reverse it and have it go A B Cb B or E F G F and so on, and don't just stick to that pattern, there are countless ways to write motifs, sometimes it just takes inspiration and time ;) and how long exactly have you been composing?

And another thing, you said in the first post that your leads are never as interesting as the professionals. Let me tell you something, if your just starting and you expect to just sit down and write something incredible and amazing, let me tell you your on a fools errand. Take your time, don't try to mature too quickly without learning anything, this is not an easy artform, don't let people tell you that you have to sound like one of the greats to be good, a wise person once told me,

"When people listen to your music, they are not expecting to hear Chopin or Bach, they are expecting to hear (Alex h.) etc.."

Don't let anybody convince you that you have to imitate the greats to be good.

hit me up on Yahoo sometime if you want to talk more about composing,

All the best

CG

i have trouble with finding a good melody (or any melody at all) ... humming random notes - which sound sorta like a melody - can sometimes help as well as playing around on sibelius :happy:

Carulli_Guitar.... thank you, there was alot of inspiratiion inspiration in your post... composing IS a difficult art and i have only rellly really been doing it less than a year, althogh although i am trying to compose something everyday.

It will take time to get up to a good standared standard, however i'm determined to get to a standard i'm happy with... it maybe is just practise, however editing great motifs is a good technique i strangly strangely never really used

I think probbally probably because i was striving for original exellence excellence when i maybe did not have the excellence anyone got any other tips...

Oh and what about things like 5ths and 7ths.... for instance if i wanted a melacholic melancholic (for example) motif what keys and intivals intervals between notes are good for getting certain moods..

thanks :happy:

PS i can't figuer figure out this link buisness business. I attatch attach the file but it doesent doesn't come up and i don't have any file posting things on my computer.... however it's irrelivent irrelevant really as i'm reasonably happy with my "back catalouge catalogue" of music

My goodness, man, were you typing that in a mad rush? Them strikethroughs make it annoying to read!

oh sorry :)

its because im dyslexic... i usually try and get sombody to proof read but nobody is in my house these days... so apologes to peopls here...

please bear with me as i do try.

ANYWAY.... somone must know about the theory behind intervals to create certain moods :D

it's all a matter of what you want Alex,

for instance, if you want a sad sound, I suggest Minor Thirds, seconds, Sixths, and Sevenths

For a more uplifting sound I suggest, Major Thirds, Seconds,Perfect 4ths, and pretty much all major intervals

One thing that is important, remeber that it is not a only a matter of what intervals you use, it's also a matter of what notes you choose and the key you play in.

hope this helps a little :D

Minor sixths actually tend to have a major-third-inverted feel, unless you use them in certain ways. Minor sevenths create a dominant-seventh feel, which usually comes out as sounding happy. Here's a vague outline of the tendency of each interval:

m2 = Very dissonant, but can sound like a root and leading-tone. Happy or sad, depending on the usage.

M2 = Again, depends how you use it.

m3 = Depending on usage, usually sounds like either 3rd-5th degrees in major or 1st-3rd degrees in minor.

M3 = Almost exclusively happy-sounding.

P4 = Very dry and open.

A4/d5 = Very dissonant, and tends to sound a little like the outer notes of a diminished triad, so rather sad.

P5 = The second most consonant interval, and thus very bright and open. As it leaves out the 3rd of a chord, its feel depends on context.

m6 = Sounds very much like a major 3rd inverted, and almost always comes out major-sounding.

M6 = Can sound either happy or sad, but has a tendency toward happy, and the upper note usually wants to resolve down to create a perfect 5th.

m7 = Dominant-7th feel, usually happy.

M7 = Dissonant, like the minor 2nd. Used a lot in jazz and creates a sparse feel.

P8 = Notes seem to be the same voice. Generally avoid an octave in two-voice writing unless there's a special reason, as only one part of a triad is heard and it's stripped of any distinguishing quality.

I'm assuming simultaneous intervals, not note-to-note progressions. Progression intervals are extremely dependent on their use for feel.

what I find interesting is that in alot of melodies, you can write them as individual notes but hear them as harmony inside your head, and then when you add the harmony its complete. I guess the tension and release the harmony creates is outlined and moved with by the melody, I feel like this alot even when I haven't harmonized a certain idea.... anyways this is just me and my intuition, not some theory rule, actually I don't know much advanced theory. However alot of motifs in peices are rather simple and get played with alot and are put in different situations, maybe your just not feeling how the notes in what you play can be utilized into a melody.... However if you want to hear an interesting peice of advice on motifs, giselle posted a topic in composer's headquarters, about using simple motifs or w/e

That's because we're used to hearing music with chords, so our mind automatically characterizes a lone melody in a pleasing fashion. The melody note(s) involved in a chord can be used to define the chord when harmonizing, simply by detecting which part of the chord the melody represents - first, third, or fifth. It's not too hard with a little ear training and decent natural ability.

yeah lol, I love it when I get an idea in my head but its not just the notes but the whole thing, that when I write a melody I am actually intuitively hearing the progression etc, then its just a matter of working the peice to what I have heard in my mind.

The best melodies usually have implicit harmonies. Also, a piece can be made more interesting by betraying those harmonies and going in a direction the listener's subconscious ear doesn't expect!

yep I agree I also like when they do the same with rhythmic cliques too and they surprise you on where the groove or feel of the rhythm is.