Overture to Saul

Ok. Here it is. My first Major Works Post .... :D Yes, so anyways, since it is a major work, I must tell you about it and so forth, so get ready to read deep into the foundations of this Overture.

Techniques used

This piece started as a series of triplets on manuscript paper. I sat down at my piano and played them, and I knew it was the beginning of an overture. This overture was composed at the piano, over the past six months. When I was finished with it there, I put it on Finale which took basically forever and a day. >_<

How long it took to compose

About six months really. There are a lot of themes in it and each one came to me over a period of six months. Then I just wove them all together.

The piece's structure

The piece really doesn't have much structure. I kind of fashioned it after Mendelssohn's Fingal's Cave Overture. The themes are introduced throughout the piece, and there are about five.

Obstacles you ran into when composing

Surprisingly this kind of just came out and evolved into what it is. I never really ran into any problems.

An overall summary

This is the overture to an oratorio I am working on: Saul. It is going to tell the story of Saul and David, but mostly Saul. It is going to be very dramatic and might even end up being an opera, but I would like to call it an oratorio for right now.

Ok....go! Please be harsh on your reviews. I want this to be as good as it can get.

overture.MID

overture.MUS

Thanks Nico...guess I deserved that for your lullaby....

So, I turned on my finale printmusic to listen to this piece, expecting a baroque french or italian overture. It kinda suprised me this wasn't (I suppose the fact that I mainly listen to baroque stuff would be why). When I got used to the format of the piece, it sounded good. I'm much less of a "what does it look like on paper" person. More of a "how does it sound." I think it sounded pretty good. If you wanted a longer overture (I think the length's fine), you could develop the themes more. This could also be developed into a full-blown symphony.

As for what to call it, an Oratorio is best defined as an "unstaged" opera, usually with religious content. Opera's usually show the drama happening (though in the 16-1700's in Italy oratorio was anything that could be called an opera, but presented in the Papal states- who had 'banned' opera).

What libretto are you using for the oratorio???

Zentari, I am farmiliar with the difference between an Oratorio and an Opera.

I am using the bible. But I'm not really showing you anything from my libretto, am I?

Let me explain myself a little better:

The story of Saul is an extremely dramatic and gripping tale. I would love for this piece to have that same emotion as an oratorio, but there are some parts of the story of Saul that I think would be better expressed in an opera. Such as the encounter with the ghost of Samuel, and the interaction between Saul and David when they first meet, etc.

I liked the piece. It's harmonically simple, but that's fine. If anything, I'd say that it's downfall is not the simple harmony, but a general lack of direction. While I hear themes throughout, I don't really hear a "message". I feel that the theme could be developed more deliberately.

That being said, the piece had some very nice moments. You used the orchestra well to create good sounds and sonorities. Each melodic phrase is well written and orchestrated. I just suggest that you try to make the phrases lead somewhere more obvious. In a word, "development".

Thanks for sharing, I enjoyed listening.

Can you be more specific, cmaj? I don't really understand what you are saying. Sorry I am totally fried. >_

I'll listen again and try to give you specifics. Will probably be tommorow, though. Remind me if you see me in the shoutbox tommorow.

OK. I will.

Yeh I kind of wanted measure numbers, and references like that.

Ok, I'm going to be kinda harsh, I hope you don't mind.

1. Beginning to measure 8 is a little drawn out, the pattern becomes too predictable. I'd leave off measure 7 altogether

2. Beginning to measure 20 sounds like a very dramatic introduction, bu the material that follows is thematically weak.

3. 23-25 is a nice transition, but lacks a strong theme before it.

4. The actual melody of the oboe solo at 26 seems a bit weak and wandering. The triplet movement is nice, but they serve as very heavy ornamentation to a weak line. To see what I mean, take away the triplets and play the first note of each beat as quarter notes.

5. 30-37 is another good transition, but all the stuff that comes after is also thematically weak, and as such sounds transitory.

6. Measure 60 sounds like the beginning of a really nice theme, but it gets stuck in the sequential pattern by the 3rd measure. Break the pattern to take it somewhere.

Overall, as I said before, the piece has nice moments. You set up the sonorities and mood well, but it is lacking in substance. I would recommend that you extract all your themes and see if they stand up by themselves. The bulk of this composition works really well as transition material.

I would also reccomend that you plan out the form of the composition more deliberately. I know you said that this is a free-form piece, but it does indeed seem sectional, even as it is through-composed. To sustain that kind of composition, your themes need to be even more deliberate and memorable, since you won't really be developing them. If you are only going to give us the theme once, make sure it's a "super-theme". Usually if you can hum a theme without having to look at the music, it is memorable. I, at least, could not do that with these.

I hope that this is not too harsh. I like your approach to orchestral writing and I like your themes from your other work, I just didn't really like how they came together in this piece, it seemed a little aimless, though dramatic. Keep writing.

Ok, I'm going to be kinda harsh, I hope you don't mind.

Not at all, that's why I posted it.

1. Beginning to measure 8 is a little drawn out, the pattern becomes too predictable. I'd leave off measure 7 altogether

Or just redo the entire beginning, because it was just me taking the easy way out because I couldn't think of anything creatice to do.

2. Beginning to measure 20 sounds like a very dramatic introduction, bu the material that follows is thematically weak.

I actually wanted that effect. I wanted it to be really strong at the beginning and then die down, and then build up later in the piece.

Thanks so much for all of your points, this is really going to help me. Thanks!

I have to concur with the assessment that others have made, you need to use a few more chords, but most especially in the introduction. A switch between I and V can work really well towards the end of a piece (see Beethoven's V, mvt 1), but it's kind of clumsy in the beginning. I suggest that you research the wonders that is the German 6th chord (in C (maj or min), the chord is Ab C Eb F#). You cna use it to proceed either to V or I, and it does so very effectively. If you use it towards the end of your I-V introduction, it'll bring a quick jolt of harmonic vitality that will make the listener feel as if he got something for those I-Vs other than bum-bum-bum-bum.

Now, as to the remainder of your piece, I think the harmonic idiom holds up pretty well. You have enough clever melodies and rigorous passage work in the strings that the general paucity of harmonic development is not obvious. You do have some harmonically advanced sections (with the chromatic scale for instance), and they do a good job at keeping the piece interesting for our harmonic ears. But you definitely tantalize our melodic and rhythmic ears far more. For instance, the syncopated section was truly delightful.

Despite this, in the sections with block chords, you need to beef up your strings section. I don't think it is advisable for each string section to be playing unison there. Give the cellos, violas and 1st and 2nd violins two voices in those sections. That will provide a fuller orchestration, and help you avoid those massive chords in the 1st violins that you had in a few places.

That's all I have to say about this work. I enjoyed it, and think youmade a nice first entry into the Major works category. :)

This piece is not dramatic . It doesnt bring out a clear motif or theme. The music is not deep and It doesnt describe the story of King Saul and King David. Where is the heroic theme that brings along the Character of Saul, or David?

I strongly recommend you to begin the whole work from begining to end. This time take your time and think deeply of the story. Let the story really inspire you. Music that would be well thought of and really inspired would move the listener as well.

Regards,

Saul

yea, one thing that I noticed that, (I dont look at the paper while listenin, partly because I can't) the timpani was REALLY loud in one part, i felt like it was taking over, one place that it does this is 3:19 into the piece, and one earlier

also, there is really no development, but overall, I do think its a really good piece

That was great! I would just reccomend making the first oboe solo a little more musical. It sounded like maybe you blew through some notes to make it...dont know how to explain it. Good job though!

Overall, the piece has good moments. Try develop more each theme you use.

Not put one theme after other without develop it.

But I like your style, and your music have good points! please continue!

Guilherme