January 25, 20233 yr I thought that fourths were allowed in the upper voices, not between bass and tenor.
January 25, 20233 yr 19 minutes ago, Luis Hernández said: I thought that fourths were allowed in the upper voices, not between bass and tenor. I remember that as long as the fourth acts as the bass two note of a faxbourdon that will be fine and the fourth will be a consonance on that situation.
January 25, 20233 yr Hi @GospelPiano12, Actually I don't think this is a simple SATB! There are many non harmonic notes, add notes and unusual chord progression in it! All I say may not be applicable here, since it's more a traditional SATB approach! In b.2 the G minor seventh chord with the F in alto is not too appropriate with a dominant seventh before and the F sharp in different voice. In b.3 there's crossing of voice between S and A. In b.4 the augmented chord with double leading tone of C sharp seems too dissonant for me. In b.6 the F following a B natural creates a tritone. In b.8 there's a parallel 8th btw S and B. The harmonic progression is not quite smooth overall but I don't know what is the crieteria of writing it, so I can't judge on that. Thanks for sharing! Henry
January 25, 20233 yr Author 10 minutes ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said: Hi @GospelPiano12, Actually I don't think this is a simple SATB! There are many non harmonic notes, add notes and unusual chord progression in it! All I say may not be applicable here, since it's more a traditional SATB approach! In b.2 the G minor seventh chord with the F in alto is not too appropriate with a dominant seventh before and the F sharp in different voice. In b.3 there's crossing of voice between S and A. In b.4 the augmented chord with double leading tone of C sharp seems too dissonant for me. In b.6 the F following a B natural creates a tritone. In b.8 there's a parallel 8th btw S and B. The harmonic progression is not quite smooth overall but I don't know what is the crieteria of writing it, so I can't judge on that. Thanks for sharing! Henry Any suggestions on how I could make it smoother? This is one of my hymns that I wrote into an SATB setting
January 25, 20233 yr Actually it really depends on which style you want. E.g the augmentes chord in b.4 and penultimate bar will be considered too crude in traditional SATB but it's absoultely fine if you want a less traditional one. I will prevent those parallels though since it will reduce the individuality of each voice, e.g. that of b.8 btw S and B.
January 25, 20233 yr 4 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said: I remember that as long as the fourth acts as the bass two note of a faxbourdon that will be fine and the fourth will be a consonance on that situation. I don't understand that... As I have studied this, fauxbourdon technique consists in three voices: Cantus firmus in the upper one Middle voice at a fixed interval of a 4th from the upper voice Bass voice at a 6th from the upper one This results in a sequence of harmonies in first inversion.
January 25, 20233 yr I mean if it's consecutive harmonic chords of first inversion, then the parallel fourths can allowed. That's quite similar to the faxbourdon I guess!
January 25, 20233 yr Author 5 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said: Actually it really depends on which style you want. E.g the augmentes chord in b.4 and penultimate bar will be considered too crude in traditional SATB but it's absoultely fine if you want a less traditional one. I will prevent those parallels though since it will reduce the individuality of each voice, e.g. that of b.8 btw S and B. I like a #5aug chord going to the 6, really it's just the I augmneted in an inversion, but I like to mix it up
January 25, 20233 yr Author 4 hours ago, Luis Hernández said: I don't understand that... As I have studied this, fauxbourdon technique consists in three voices: Cantus firmus in the upper one Middle voice at a fixed interval of a 4th from the upper voice Bass voice at a 6th from the upper one This results in a sequence of harmonies in first inversion. Could you maybe mark up some areas that need adjusting then?
January 25, 20233 yr Hi. First of all don't take my words literally, of course, do what you want. As far as I know, in 4 part writing, or generally speaking, since tonality became common, the fourth is a consonance if it is in the upper part of chord, that is, in first inversion (E - G - C). But when the fourth involves the bass, it is a dissonance. The 4th was used as the normal interval (together with the 5th) in times before the Renaissance (when the 3rd and the 6th were considered dissonances). On the other hand, Fauxbourdon, Faburden and Falsobordone are different harmonization and improvisatory techniques developed in the final part of the Middle Ages and the early Renaissance. They are techniques that harmonize a cantus firmus in three or four voices. Fauxbourdon has its origin in Bourgogne (France), Faburden in England, and Falsobordone in Italy. In these techniques the upper voice was strictly harmonized in the interval of 4th by the middle voice. These devices were used much more later, here you have an example of Fauxbourdon in the Impromptu Op. 29 by Chopin. As you can see, it is a sequence of chords in first inversion. Notice how in every of them the bass forms a third with the middle voice, and the middle a fourth with the upper voice . In your piece, some fourths involving the bass are in passing spots, or they seem prepared. But other ones are in strong places. As I said, you can do what you want. In my opinion, the fourths in this situation provides an "ancient" sound, and it is a bit incongruent with the piece following the tonal rules we all know. Edited January 25, 20233 yr by Luis Hernández
January 27, 20233 yr I actually think the leap of seventh from b.3 to 4 quite difficult for the bass, though not necessarily a problem. I love that D# and Db "clash" in b.8, very spiritual for me. The chord in b.16 is great as well.
January 27, 20233 yr Author 3 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said: I actually think the leap of seventh from b.3 to 4 quite difficult for the bass, though not necessarily a problem. I love that D# and Db "clash" in b.8, very spiritual for me. The chord in b.16 is great as well. I wasn't sure what to call the chord in b.16 since it moves through FM7, Bb, Bbm6, before resting on an F chord, so I'm just gonna leave it. Also, I meant to bring the bass down an octave lower in b.4. And the Gm7-Eb7/Db-C7 is a chord progression I use a lot, it's just a varied ii-V7.
February 24, 20233 yr Author Not an analysis, but did I notate this correctly? Pls, pls excuse the rough vocals, I could not find the key lol, but I think my notation is correct. I haven't played it on a piano, but I think aural skills has helped with my pitch/solfege identification and notation. Hoping to harmonize this similar to how "Cleanse Me Oh God" is harmonized. And maybe with some passing tones in the alto, tenor, and bass.
February 24, 20233 yr Hey @GospelPiano12, 53 minutes ago, GospelPiano12 said: Not an analysis, but did I notate this correctly? Pls, pls excuse the rough vocals, I could not find the key lol, but I think my notation is correct. I haven't played it on a piano, but I think aural skills has helped with my pitch/solfege identification and notation. Your notation is perfectly right! You sing it perfectly too as the key is right in Db major! The harmonization seems great as well! Henry
February 24, 20233 yr Author 4 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said: Hey @GospelPiano12, Your notation is perfectly right! You sing it perfectly too as the key is right in Db major! The harmonization seems great as well! Henry Thank you, I'm feeling much more confident in my notation abilities.
February 24, 20233 yr Use this in the last three bars seems great except the 10th bte S and A in b.2 : Sorry for the blurred image...
February 24, 20233 yr Author I like that a lot, I'm actually going to move it up to A flat major so it'll be in an easier range, and parts will be in a better range as well.
February 24, 20233 yr Author Finished parts. Anyway to have the Eb7 walkup in contrary motion? Please let me know if you have any suggestions for adding some decoration to the parts, especially the Bbm-Eb7 phrase Like my example above? Edited February 25, 20233 yr by GospelPiano12
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