Ignorance is not Bliss:

I have no clue what the difference is between counterpoint and a concerto. Please help out.. I know some basic theory, but I have a hard time understanding. I went to the recommended sites you guys gave me and they helped, but I still have trouble understanding some of the things there. Is there any way I can study harmony on my own and actually get the things I'm learning using the Internet?

Best is to listen to some good examples of the forms that interest you, studying scores along with analytical notes. There'll still be problems because works don't always conform to the strict definitions.

As far as counterpoint goes, try some 16th century polyphony - composers like Palestrina, Lassus, Victoria for the finest examples. But you need to be aware of the rules/guidlines to appreciate what's going on...and when it IS counterpoint and not, because these, like all counterpoint composers, include some homophonic sections in their works. You could also listen to Bach but have to find out what's contrapuntal and not. His fugal works: fugue is a 'branch' of counterpoint and a clever one at that. I'm miles from a Bach expert so hopefully other members could suggest specific examples.

For concertos, try Mozart or Beethoven for a start. If they call something a concerto it usually is.

You'll soon form a view of what's appropriate or otherwise in these media.

:)

How do I find how when it is a counterpoint as you say, what I mean is how can I learn this since listening doesn't provide sufficient definition to know what is happening all of the time.

If there's anything you're unsure of, first try Wikipedia then, if you still don't understand what you qant to understand, ask here, between all of us, someone is bound to know what you want to know, and most people on here are more than happy to share their experience to aid the learning of others. I've found the members of this forum (usually) very helpful and friendly.

Mark

Is this book any good?

Amazon.com: Musical Composition: Books: Reginald Smith Brindle

What are the best books regarding composition, etc.?

Visit my post in this subforum for many useful sites. There are a lot more sites that I know of, but these are good for beginners.

How do I learn what I'm listening to.. I hear those recommendations you give and yes, it sounds good, but beyond adding to talent, does pure listening help? How do I gain the actual knowledge required to study scores with analytical notes, etc.? Where do I begin.. I'm having trouble with the "knowledge" part. My piano teacher just gives me things to play and I play them, we never study theory...

Creationartist:

Let me try and help you.

First of all you MUST know the basic theory which is needed to study a piano work. But of corse I could use the knowledge of knowing what grade/class you are. Any piece you're playing in the piano will give me an idea, as I have a diploma in piano.

you know the notes, and you know the rythms. This is the very basic stuff.

You have heard of counterpoint, harmony, fugue, forms and other stuff which you probably don't understand. (as you claim so yourself). As definitions these are not difficult to grasp but to master them it is another issue.

You will, most probably (but nto definately) need someone by your side to guide you through. Books will help and sites will also help. To begin with, I've done a thread in a different forum which can be found HERE and will provide you with plenty of links and books directly to amazon so you can choose for yourself.

Studying scores: Usually one starts from the early agres and moves forward. A baroque piece by Scarlati (a piano sonata perhaps?) will be quite easy to understand. The form is the most basic sonata form (16 bars of a theme, then again 16 bars, the theme in the corresponding tonality (C - Am, or Am-C, for example) and done. The melodic material will be easy to understand and play in the piano, so you won't have trouble figuring it out a little. There is tiny bits of counterpoint so you won't troulbe yourself a lot. Then after a while move on to Haydn, Mozart, then Beethoven, Chopin, etc...

As you play the piano, if done correctly (from your behalf) you will arrive to a point that you will instinticly understand what's going on more or less.

Few definitions (very raugh) to keep you going:

Form, the way that the melodies are presented and the architecture of a piece. A pop song usually goes verse-chorus-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-chorus . Another piece could go Theme-Different theme-First theme. That kind of thing

Harmony: The way that the chords are made, but MAINLY the way that they are connected. The movement of the different voices are of great importance, as simple saying C major will not do, if the previous one creates "bad" melodic movement.

Counterpoint: The horisontal movement of voices. How you can write different voices that are played together and actually compliment one another, and sound both of them together fine, and as well if played alone. Then with more voice (3,4 and even 5)

Orchestration: How to "dress" a melody for an orchestra. Different instruments, differnet timbres, different technical abilities.

Instrumentation: How to know what each instrument can do. Does the flute play bellow middle C? (No). Can the bassoon hold a note for 50 secs? (No) Can the violin play a five note chord? (No) and other more detailed stuff.

Hope it's helpful.

Thanks a lot.