Fullness with SATB Writing

Not really sure which thread to put this in, so I'm posting here 😅

I do a lot of arranging of SATB hymns, and I'm really wanting to get more "fullness" in my writing. I've taken 3.5 years of college music theory so far, so I know the rules, but I'm struggling to find that fullness I'm looking for. A good example of this might be, "Abide in Me". 

I've attached an excerpt from something in currently working on arranging so I could maybe get some feedback on how to get some fullness. Thanks in advance!

HI @BlackkBeethoven

My advice is using the given melody with harmony is:

1. Create bass line

2.  Fill in the middle parts

3. add figurations. 

The first part of the score has a lot of unisons or octaves, 2nds and 7ths. Creating more thirds fourths and fifths in between the voices might help thicken the harmony. 

4 hours ago, Kvothe said:

HI @BlackkBeethoven

My advice is using the given melody with harmony is:

1. Create bass line

2.  Fill in the middle parts

3. add figurations. 

 

The process you've outlined is exactly how I normally write 😂 but #3 is different. I will incorporate that. 

2 hours ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

The first part of the score has a lot of unisons or octaves, 2nds and 7ths. Creating more thirds fourths and fifths in between the voices might help thicken the harmony. 

 

What do you mean?

Can you elaborate and define what you mean by "fullness"?

2 hours ago, muchen_ said:

Can you elaborate and define what you mean by "fullness"?

Yeah, please do.  Do you want thicker textures?  If so you could just write for more vocal parts - SMATBB - 6 part choir instead of SATB.

3 hours ago, muchen_ said:

Can you elaborate and define what you mean by "fullness"?

 

Hmm good question 

These are some good examples 

Hymn for Band by Hugh Stuart

Abide With Me

https://youtu.be/gpLsLuuVmtk?si=coSUQtW76cVVEW1Y

1 hour ago, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

Yeah, please do.  Do you want thicker textures?  If so you could just write for more vocal parts - SMATBB - 6 part choir instead of SATB.

 

Just full 😂

It may have to do with instrumentation, but I work with an instrumental ensemble that plays SATB arrangements. 

Well I guess you have to be clear with what you wanna achieve, like harmonic, timberal, thematic, rhythmic fullness or whatever fullness haha.

4 hours ago, BlackkBeethoven said:

may have to do with instrumentation, but I work with an instrumental ensemble that plays SATB arrangements

I guess if you work this way, you have tp achieve harmonic fullness in the SATB first, which is to allow all the tones of a chord whenever possible. Then when you arrange it to band, the orchestration matters for the timberal fullness.

Henry

3 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

harmonic

I think I'll stick with harmonic fullness for as of right now. 

I find that starting with 6ths between my S and T voices allows for an open, broader sound. Which allows the parts to sound big.

3 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

if you work this way, you have tp achieve harmonic fullness in the SATB first, which is to allow all the tones of a chord whenever possible. Then when you arrange it to band, the orchestration matters for the timberal fullness.

I've actually noticed that I rarely make edits after writing the initials SATB and transposing for the different instruments. Any edits I make are between the 4 parts and just making those sound as good as possible. 

First system of the piece I'm working on to show how I write step by step. 

Added more parts

I like the Dbm(technically Dbm6) to the Bb, but I'm not sure. 

As far I can see, there were not any counter point errors: parallel 8ths and 5ths.  🙂

I am concern with the bass movement, though.  You mainly use root bass movement. Try using inversions with the harmonies. You will have more melodic bass live that way. 

Also @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu commented: what are you trying achieve? 

Let us know, 

Kvothe. 

1 hour ago, Kvothe said:

As far I can see, there were not any counter point errors: parallel 8ths and 5ths.  🙂

Oh good!! I've been working on my part-writing

1 hour ago, Kvothe said:

You mainly use root bass movement. Try using inversions with the harmonies. You will have more melodic bass live that way. 

Hmm that's a good idea - in what spots do you think it would work?

1 hour ago, Kvothe said:

Also @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu commented: what are you trying achieve? 

I'm having trouble articulating it, but I sent some examples to give an idea of what I'm trying to achieve. 

Hey @BlackkBeethoven!

I was thinking of some alternate explanations for why you might perceive your music as not sounding "full".

1. Quality of your sound samples - If you're using low quality samples or general midi or Musescore Basic Soundfonts this might be the cause of your dissatisfaction rather than anything about the quality of the harmonies or how full the textures you're using are.
2. Lack of reverb or realistic room effects - If your renderings are very dry and without any realistic reverberation to let the instruments really resonate then that might be another thing that might be causing your poor impression.
3. Avoidance of Dissonant Intervals - Choral harmony uses lots of beautiful rubs or dissonant passing tones or suspensions and if you haven't learned how to incorporate some of these dissonant voicings your SATB arrangements might sound bland to you.

These are just some ideas off the top of my head for why you might experience your music as not sounding "full".  I hope some of this was helpful!

21 minutes ago, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

Quality of your sound samples

I honestly was thinking it might be this one, but the fullness I'm looking for comes more from listening to pieces being played live. 

22 minutes ago, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

Avoidance of Dissonant Intervals

That might be it and adding more color to the harmony 

Thank you @PeterthePapercomPoser!!