Cesar Franck - Prelude in C minor (orchestration)

Hi to all,

Just wanted to post my latest orchestration attempt.

It's the prelude from Cesar Franck's "Prelude, Fugue and Variation" (Op. 18).

This is a rough draft for midi rendition: so I haven't added slurs, etc...

Not sure about my brass passage in Bars 26-32? Perhaps I should stick with woodwind and strings?

I wonder if I should attempt the fugue and variation too? Though they would be more challenging.

Anyway let me know what you think?

Franck - Prelude in C minor (orchestration) #9 (score).pdf

Alex,

A lovely orchestration, though, I have some questions in the selection of the English Horn; especially in the lower register ... the actual projection may be more covered in the ensemble.

Mark

Thanks Mark!

I just love the colour of the English horn: so try to use it as much as possible,

Would you suggest I move these passages into the bassoon or bass clarinet?

I would give it to the bassoon ... you may have to adjust the other lines. By the way - why the contrabassoon? The timbre to support the melody is not the same as a String Bass or bassoon in resonance.

Mark

It’s a beautiful piece and your version is fantastic.

It’s restrained and balanced, without any superfluous filler that ultimately makes it sound muddy and indistinct. And it sounds absolutely lovely.

You’ve done a great job of separating the different voices implicit in the keyboard version, and that voice leading accounts for a large part of the orchestration’s success. In my opinion.

I think the brass section is good, as it’s handled delicately and adds that touch of colour.

I also really like the English horn, though I do tend to hear it more in solo passages than in the ensemble because it has such a distinctive timbre.

Orchestrating a fugue is a bit different; I did one recently (by Bach). And well, I think with these styles you have to be very faithful to the original and add very little (in terms of melody or harmonies). And keep the parts very well separated. In this case, there’s an added difficulty because, although it’s a Baroque-style fugue, it’s clearly Romantic, meaning that, as well as the horizontal voices, Franck allows himself to add chords and thicken the textures as he pleases. A challenge that can be very rewarding.

11 hours ago, MJFOBOE said:

I would give it to the bassoon ... you may have to adjust the other lines. By the way - why the contrabassoon? The timbre to support the melody is not the same as a String Bass or bassoon in resonance.

Mark

I was trying to stick to the pitches from the original piano work: so the bass line is too low for bassoon.

I could've used double-basses; but felt like contrabassoon would blend better with the other woodwinds. Double-bass can stick out sometimes when it's not balanced by the other strings, and has a more abrasive sound than contrabassoon in my opinion.

There aren't many other options available for that low register. The only ones I can think of are harp, piano and bass marimba.

5 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

It’s a beautiful piece and your version is fantastic.

It’s restrained and balanced, without any superfluous filler that ultimately makes it sound muddy and indistinct. And it sounds absolutely lovely.

You’ve done a great job of separating the different voices implicit in the keyboard version, and that voice leading accounts for a large part of the orchestration’s success. In my opinion.

I think the brass section is good, as it’s handled delicately and adds that touch of colour.

I also really like the English horn, though I do tend to hear it more in solo passages than in the ensemble because it has such a distinctive timbre.

Orchestrating a fugue is a bit different; I did one recently (by Bach). And well, I think with these styles you have to be very faithful to the original and add very little (in terms of melody or harmonies). And keep the parts very well separated. In this case, there’s an added difficulty because, although it’s a Baroque-style fugue, it’s clearly Romantic, meaning that, as well as the horizontal voices, Franck allows himself to add chords and thicken the textures as he pleases. A challenge that can be very rewarding.

Thank you so much for the kind words Luis.

When I heard this prelude, I thought it was crying out for an orchestration: so I couldn't resist making one!

Will probably have a go at the fugue and variation some time; though at the moment I'm working on an orchestration of Rachmaninoff's Prelude in B minor (Op.32 No.10), which is proving quite challenging!

18 hours ago, Alex Weidmann said:

at the moment I'm working on an orchestration of Rachmaninoff's Prelude in B minor (Op.32 No.10), which is proving quite challenging!

Good luck! That's a very good one.

I’ve been thinking about the comment on the role of the contrabassoon here, following on from what’s already been said.

I understand that you’d like to use the woodwinds as a bass line in those sections; that’s simply a matter of timbre and so on.

Although I’m a firm believer in absolute freedom when it comes to composing, it’s true that I also bear in mind certain general principles.

One is the ‘economy’ of instruments. Although I’ll never have a symphony orchestra or anything of the sort at my disposal, I do like to write as realistically as I can. That’s why, if the parts for one instrument can be played by another, I don’t use it.

The other principle is to double the bass (an octave up or down), and I notice you do this. This is something I was taught very early on. And there’s a reason for it: the low register is the least audible to our ears. There are exceptions, of course: when the orchestral texture is very light, it isn’t necessary.

In this piece, most of the notes for the contrabassoon can be played by the bassoon. Let’s say up to the low C (B flat, actually).

To put it another way, I might have used the bassoon for that contrabassoon line and supported it on the lowest notes with the tuba or the double bass.

There are sections of the contrabassoon part that can be taken over by bassoon 2, for example in bars 22 and 24. It’s true that the bassoons are in part 2, but it isn’t necessary (with those dynamics – diinuendo and ppp).

Well, anyway, that’s just my opinion, based partly on how I learnt it. I was taught that instruments such as the contrabassoon, the bass clarinet, and even higher-pitched ones like the piccolo, were there for when the standard instruments couldn’t play the parts.

Sometimes I’ve been guilty of wanting to be too literal when transposing a piano piece for the orchestra. But I’ve also realised that there are times when you have to take certain liberties or make changes to adapt the sound to the orchestra.

Best regards.

Thanks Luis, great points you raise.

Hopefully you will have a symphony orchestra at your disposal one day! You never know...

Let me add something, even though it goes beyond the specific work in question; by chance, I came across an example just today.

This is part of the first page of E. Elgar’s Concerto for Violin and Orchestra. A dense piece…

Note that for the contrabassoon and the tuba it says ‘ad lib’ (ad libitum).

This does not mean that these instruments should ‘play whatever they like’.

It means this:

-Optional instruments: The contrabassoon and tuba may be omitted.

-Lack of players: If the orchestra does not have them, the piece is performed as normal.

-Conductor’s decision: The conductor decides whether to include these instruments.

This is what I was referring to earlier.

Best regards.