Rachmaninoff - Elegie in Eb minor (orchestration)

I'm not done with the score for this yet: so please forgive the sloppy notation. Just hoping to get some comments on my orchestration choices before I finalise it.

I know there are arrangements of this piano work for various ensembles; but I couldn't find one for symphony orchestra: so I thought I'd make one.

Hope you enjoy listening!

Rachmaninoff - Elegie in E♭ minor (orchestration) #26 (midi).pdf

Nice! I love this, and have personally performed the original. You might want to give the harp some rest though lol. The strings and woodwinds are rather equal, which is great!

Good job!

-TristanTheTristan

Hello

That sounds fantastic.

I just have one ‘objection’: the harp, as an almost literal substitute for the piano, doesn’t strike me as an orchestral solution.

Piano arpeggios can be achieved in other ways using woodwinds or strings, or by combining them in a way that’s true to the instrument’s character, whilst maintaining the voice leading and rhythmic patterns. That would sound more symphonic.

Yes, it takes a lot more effort to find the right solution, but it’s worth it.

When I try to orchestrate piano pieces, I simply don’t use the harp. Perhaps later on, as an occasional supporting element or in specific moments…

And there’s a question I wanted to ask you.

In a case like this, have you considered changing the key to one that’s more ‘comfortable’ for the orchestra? For example, D minor, or even E minor.

Hi Luis.

Yes I did consider transposing to E minor; but then I remembered what my old piano teacher used to say.

He told me: "there's no such thing as a hard key; you just have to think yourself into it".

May be this applies more to pianists than musicians at large, I don't know?

I did also think about splitting the arpeggios between instruments, and tried this in an earlier draft.

Problem is, the arpeggios have a very wide span: so I had to use three different woodwind instruments to cover all the notes. This sounded bad, because they all had different timbres.

Also considered using marimba; but again it can't cover the whole span.

Maybe I could get away with it in the strings. Perhaps using pizz.; or a mixture of pizz. and arco?

Will give it a try.

The other option would be to change the arpeggios.

I've done this a little bit in the flute part during the recapitulation, where I've added notes that don't exist in the original. Could probably take this further: so that's another thing I'll try.

Many thanks for listening and commenting,

Alex

10 hours ago, TristanTheTristan said:

Nice! I love this, and have personally performed the original. You might want to give the harp some rest though lol. The strings and woodwinds are rather equal, which is great!

Good job!

-TristanTheTristan

Thanks Tristan,

I'm glad you like the balance between strings and winds, as this is something I've been striving for in my orchestrations!

Alex

Hello

A number of interesting topics.

I’m speaking from a position of inexperience and, more to the point, as I’m still learning, so all of this is just suggestions or other possible options. As I said, it sounds brilliant as it is.

Firstly, the issue of transposition for orchestra. I agree with what your teacher (your piano teacher, that is) said. But I think we need to consider making things easier for the instrumentalists. Another point is that it doesn’t really matter to us. It’s going to sound the same, at least in the context of virtual instrument libraries.

But the reality is that in this key of E flat minor, it’s more complicated for the strings because there are no open strings; they have to ‘press down’ with their fingers all the time, losing resonance, and so on…

I can see problems for the harp too, because being tuned to six flats puts a lot of strain on it. And changes may be more difficult.

I think the woodwinds would be most comfortable with this.

This key is rarely used in the orchestral repertoire, and I think it’s sought after for dark, tragic, profound tones. Perhaps it would suit something like the Elegy.

As far as I’m aware, in the symphonic repertoire, the only works in E-flat minor are by Russian composers: Prokofiev’s Symphony No. 6, Rimsky-Korsakov’s Symphony No. 1 (which he himself transposed to E minor later), and a few others.

The other issue, that of arpeggios… You see, in my orchestration classes and seminars we’ve discussed this quite a lot, as well as Alberti basses, etc… How do you adapt them for an orchestra?

As I said in my previous message, a literal translation can, of course, work, because there are instruments capable of playing those arpeggios. However, we’re now dealing with an orchestra.

It doesn’t have to be a single instrument that does everything. The important thing, I believe, is that the rhythm is clearly marked (with accents and pizzicato, for example), and that the figures are in the appropriate pitches and note values for each instrument.

This is also where the question of how faithful one wants to be to the original score comes into play. That’s down to personal preference; we can be very literal, or we can take the main ideas and create an orchestral version. It’s true that for some scores I find it less appropriate to take liberties (for example, when orchestrating Baroque counterpoint),

I’ve written these few bars in one possible arrangement, which I’m sure could be improved; I also think it would sound softer on the strings, especially with mutes.

Haha, in the very first lessons I had on all this, we worked on Mozart and pieces like that, precisely to translate those piano accompaniments into something else.

Cheers.

Edited Tuesday at 07:47 PM3 days by Luis Hernández

Great job Luis!

By sustaining notes and using mixed articulations, you've managed to disguise the changes in timbre so they're not jarring. Also creating a richer sound in the process.

I will definitely experiment with something similar.

I changed the recapitulation today. The arpeggios are now mostly in the violins, with only the root notes in the harp.

I also elaborated the flute part: so it's now playing almost continuous alternate arpeggios on top.

I wonder if this flute part is a step too far? It may be distracting from the main melody?

Anyway the new material starts around 4'20", and I also made several other tweaks throughout the piece.

(Please ignore the messy slurs: these are only temporary.)

Rachmaninoff - Elegie in E♭ minor (orchestration) #30 (midi).pdf

Hi @Alex Weidmann !

I listen to both the original and the revised version and I enjoy both versions to be honest. I think for @Luis Hernández 's suggestion is that the whole arppeggiated phrase need not to be played by one instrument alone: for example in 4:20 even if you want the whole phrase played by flute alone, you could have shared the phrase to flute I and flute II players respectively, or in some bars later by divisi Vioin I players which will give the additional benefit of minimizing the volume as well. Thx for sharing this wonderful (again!) arrangement!

Henry