Half way through concerto mvt, want to make sure I'm on the right track

tis in Am, modulates to Cmaj in the first solo section and has a quick statement of the ritornello, then I'm kind of at a loss as to where to go.

As is probably fairly obvious, my main influences are bach and vivaldi.

I just need a few ideas as to how to go about the next solos and stuff, and if i can make any more motives for solos and stuff from the ritornello.

BTW, i don't want to continue with the imitation between the flute and violin one in the next solo.

Thanks, Mark

how constructive, thank you for taking the time to give a thoughtful and helpful comment

You drive that four chord progression into the ground and don't come out of it until m.33. when you finally arrive at the relative major (Cmajor). Unfortunately, your progression starting at 33 is similarly diatonic. My recommendation is to cut bars 1-8, and perhaps 25-28 or even 25-31 and change the chord at m.34 so it isn't the same A-minor you've been pounding since the beginning. Try and get away from 4-bar progressions before everything starts to sound like Heart and Soul. Just my two cents, but then I can't stand Pachelbel's Canon - Hearing the same progression over and over and over is like water torture.

thanks for your advice, I'll give it another look when I've got more time, thanks, Maek

Thanks Nico, love that new title BTW! So, should i keep the 1451 just on the ritornello and use different, more interesting progressions for the solo sections? Could the modulation be smoother aswell? And could there be a better first re-statement of the ritornello, dominant instead of relative major for example?

Thanks, Maek

Wow Mark, I remember you showing me four bars when on msn and seems like you developed it pretty well. Oh and you got finale 2007 already? Grats.

Well on to the piece, I don't really mind the 1451 chord progressions, but the melody seems a bit repitative, changing a bit won't hurt. Btw what's ritornello?

PS: you spelled your name wrong in the last 2 posts.. :pinch:

Ritornello is the form used widely in Baroque concerti, eg bach's brandenburg concerto number 3 i think and all of vivaldi's cello concerti. In Italien it means something to the effect of refrain and is the 'theme' that appears in different related keys throughout the movement with solos modulating from key to key with the solo instrument 'soloing'.

I use finale 2006.

I spell my name maek because mitchell told me to stop saying Mark at the end of every post so now i sign my name as Maek.

Thanks, Maek

wait, wiki explains it better than me: Ritornello - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think you should just work on with this, Mark. Leightwing has given some good advice - he's a pro - but you really need to press on to the end; leave it a few days (I customarily leave a month at least). You might come to similar conclusions.

It's best to disregard your negative critics (here) simply because they are unqualified (academically or situationally) to guide a composer of your experience - and the work isn't complete and revised by you. So, to review what you've done, one needs to grasp what the composer hopes to do and that takes perception. But you need to get to the end to be sure of the beginning if you see what I mean.

Double bad on an internet site where one can't easily go into the details one would like.

So, for what it's worth, keep going to some stage of completion, give it a break to stand back, then have another look.

Imagine what Beethoven would get from certain people if his preliminary sketches were to appear here!

Good luck, and best wishes for a great time over the holidays and highly compositional new year!

Bye now.

Thanks again for the advice monty, you've been one of the people whose taken a lot of time to help me and that i truely appreciate.

I do definitely think the progressions during the solos should be much smoother though, and if i don't revise thatnow it'll be much harder later on, especially if i become attatched to a line that only works over the harmonically boring progressions I'm using now.

I'm not going to do any more to the ritornello as I'm happy with it but i do think having a 1451 on that and during the solos will be a bit boring.

Anyone got any links to any places that can give me good advice on creating good, solid, smooth modulating progressions? I'll search the forums for that theory site you posted a link to a while back monty when i was asking about figured bass.

Maek

oh bugger, I've just realised how attatched to the first 8 bars of the solo i am, any ideas on how i could salvage them while keeping a more interesting progression?

Upon reconsideration I've decided the first restatement of the ritornello to be in Em, modulating there will be easier

"... Just my two cents, but then I can't stand Pachelbel's Canon - Hearing the same progression over and over and over is like water torture.

LOLOLOL!

Well leight - I feel the same about his Dorian Canon ... At anyrate Mark, with some work - this could turn out to be a good piece. One pitfall I've found with using chord progressions - is that eventually if they get over used, then any piece begins to sound like a skipping LP after awhile. I'm totally with Montipelliers assessment of what you should do at this point. Hey, I've done it with alot of my work. I Just file it away for a bit, (a few days, a week) then I'll bring it back up and I re assess the direction I want it to go, and work from there.

thanks CJ, I'll do that, i need to work on some of my grade 8 guitar pieces over christmas anyway so I'll leave it and come back to it with fresh eyes and ears after a week or so.

Thanks, Maek

I don't have much more to add to what the others have said about this piece, but I thought the thematic aspect of it was interesting- baroque but with a ''twist'', i'd say. ;)

Imagine what Beethoven would get from certain people if his preliminary sketches were to appear here!

The Unheard Beethoven

My favorite website.

Baroque's good, thats what i was aiming for. But whats the twist?

Maek

It was quite nice, but I've a couple of things to point out.

The solo flute entry is really inconspicious. Would it not be more effective for it to first come in as a solo entry? Either that, or have it playing with the orchestra up until its first solo.

My other point is that the violin is given an equally soloistic role as the flute here. It needs to be more of a solo instrument opposing the orchestra. It weakens the ritornello form by using the violin the same way as the flute (imo). The music itself is quite nice though - I suggest you now use some different progressions (as others have also suggested).

sounds good good i see this in pdf form my computer is being really stupid....i can't see it in that format right know

right, so when i come back to this in about a weeks time when I've finished analysing the score of one of vivaldi's cello concerti (Dm) this is what I'll be doing to it:

scrapping the current solo part and start working on a good smooth modulating one.

changing the first restatement of the ritornello to Em

making the flute the definite solo instrument

not have the flute enter till the first solo

anything I've missed tell me!

Maek