Grand piano piece (sonata? i don't know!)

Hey I was on sibelius tonight and I came up with this piano piece, which I thought was quite good & so I thought I'd post it on here to see what others thought. Obviously, having spent so little time on it so far it's hardly a finished product, but the MIDI contains pretty much all my ideas plus some development.

I'm not sure what kind of piece you can call this. The first thing that sprang to my mind was sonata but I don't really know what that means & is solely based on listening to other piano music :)

As with most piano things I write, my main concern above all at the moment is the playability of the song. I don't play the piano so I'm not sure how hard this is, or if it's even possible! So if you could give me some direction on that I'd be really grateful. :) Cheers.

PS Sorry for mispelling 'piano' on the MIDI.

wow, that's really fast!

i'm not sure how playable it is, but it sounds very hard to play. :P

then again, i'm not any good on the piano, so of course i would think that.

some parts are quite nice and flow well.

Nah. It's quite playable.

Good :P Thanks.

I really enjoyed it! It was very flowing and every idea made sense as well as sounding great. I would think it was playable as well based on speed (though its definitely way too difficult for me) based on some other music I've heard (for example the piece about the donkeys in carnival of the animals that is really fast).

It could be a Fantasy, an Impromptu, an Etude or a Study. Basically anything that doesn't denote a structure. The first page looks playable, but only if you put 'con molto rubato' at the start, or something to that effect. The pianist will have to slow down a lot (or at least, I certainly would) at bars where the whole hand has to jump a couple of octaves and arrange itself in the space less than a quaver.

Actually. I lie. I'm playing through it now. . . it sounded OK, but it's actually really, really not playable. Bar 14 is where it falls apart. My right hand can't span three octaves. How the hell am I supposed to play bar 64? Or bar 33? Take out some notes. . . . . It's impossible at the moment. Like, crazily impossible. Just see how many notes you can span on the piano. Probably not 20 (which is what you've got at one stage). An octave and a third is doable, but not if you've got notes inbetween (unless it's one or too at the top).

If Edwin says it's playable, then I envy him. He must have ludicrously large hands.

Well yes the parts with two octaves going on (like bar 33 as you said) is asking a lot, and I was going to take the bottom notes out before I posted it here but I thought maybe because they're arpeggiated it could be done.

Apart from bar 64 where you've got the little notes leading up to the chord, which is probably a bit silly, are the normal chords (such as bar 14) that much of a problem? It goes 2 above an octave, and the top note is flat.

If these things are gonna be problems for some pianists but not others, is it worth leaving the notes in there so that pianists can use their initiative to cut certain notes out of chords?

They won't be possible for anyone. The problem isn't that they top note and bottom note are too far apart, it's that there are too many notes in the middle. If I reach an octave and a third, my fingers don't bend around far enough to reach the notes in the middle. Unless your pianist has a long time to force their hand into the right position, or is double jointed, it isn't possible.

It's not just me. I don't think anyone can play C, E, G, C the E above with one hand properly. Maybe sort of sloppily if they force their hand into the keyboard, but I have very large hands, and I can only just do it if I sort of break my fingers and half-press the adjacent keys.

It could be a Fantasy, an Impromptu, an Etude or a Study. Basically anything that doesn't denote a structure.

Sonata doesen't denote a structure.

It's not really a Sonata. A sonata has movements.

Well, when I suggested that obviously I meant a movement from a sonata.

Very nice...for not playing the piano!

And yes. It's playable.

Hmm I'm getting a number of conflicting opinions here. Thanks to everyone who's contributed so far :happy: Let's focus one some of the aspects that have been singled out so far:

So we've got the 5-finger chords that come in at bar 14 (or 29 seconds) which has been identified as a possible problem. These chords stretch 2 above an octave, with all 5 fingers playing a note, sometimes quite quickly.

There's also the part which comes in at bar 28 (52 seconds) where you have the right hand playing three notes which are two octaves apart, but arpeggiated. I don't think this ever goes faster than a crotchet.

Anyway I think they are the two primary concerns at the moment. And also I'm not sure what the convention is regarding chords which only some people with large hands could play - do I leave them in for the pianist to interpret? Or should I remove them so that everybody can play it as written?

It really isn't. I'm not just being obtuse - look at the score. Look at bar 64! Not even Liszt could play that. The left hand has octave Fs, whilst the right hand is supposedly playing the F above middle C, a full F minor chord above it, another full F minor chord above that. . . and then an Ab above that.

It is totally impossible. Can you span two octaves with one hand, Brad?

You need to take out lots of notes. It's not even remotely playable at the moment, and it's really bad practice to get used to writing more notes than you need. It would probably sound better if you tried to be slightly more economical. Only put notes when you actually want them.

Ah sorry Zetetic I forgot to mention. Bar 64's been sorted. :happy: Well, maybe not sorted totally but it's been made playable.

And yes I think you're right about being more economical. I won't disagree on that point. But I think my main concern is with the theme at bar 28, because I like it asit is, although I always thought playability might be an issue.

Nevertheless, there a number of people saying it's playable so I'd still like to hear them out before I completely rework everything.

It's not really a Sonata. A sonata has movements.

A sonata needs not have more than one movement.

Here's a general update :) Let me know what you think.

Much better onearmedbandit. Well done. I still see problems at bars:

29-34 (the parts where three octaves of notes sound, you can't pedal them)

44-45 (it's not possible if you speed up - just put 'rubato' over it)

64 (chord's too big for even the largest of hands)

69-76 (the parts where three octaves of notes sound, you can't pedal them)

125-127 (again, same problem - I suggest you remove the bottom RH octave)

162-164 (whaaa?! Get rid of some notes! You don't need them all)

The rest is fine, and pretty darn cool!

I quite like this.

The theme introduced at about 50 seconds in and developed later is my favorite.

I think it's mostly playable, although there are a few chords (like F|Ab|C|F|Ab in right hand) I imagine only the rarest piano playing hands would be able to take without arpeggiating. Even F|C|F|Ab, which I can span, is by no means an easy chord but would definitely be a more workable substitute for what you have.

Structure-wise, it could probably be tighter but I'm, not even suggesting that it should be changed. There were some great moments and it was fun to listen to.

Sounds like variations.