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[Discussion] Jazz Theory


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An excellent idea! I already know a fair bit about jazz theory but have still yet to do anything about applying it, class exercises or something similar might be a good idea, if you have the time.

*listens to Bill Evans trio*

:P

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An excellent idea! I already know a fair bit about jazz theory but have still yet to do anything about applying it, class exercises or something similar might be a good idea...

Cool! Exercises.

I'm not really sure where I'm going to go yet with this thread - any suggestions, questions, or areas you (or anyone) would like to cover? I hope this'll open up into some discussion - I don't want to be just throwing random knowledge at you folks.

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I'd very much like to learn more about how I can apply any of the knowledge I have of jazz harmony etc and apply it to my other music, but that sort of thing may have to wait until you've covered basic jazz theory in a purely jazz context.

I'd like to learn a little more about the theory behind modal jazz, I understand the modes and how to apply them, but I've never had much success improvising over so what, for example.

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You might consider extending the simple triadic examples above by moving onto more complex flavours of figured bass. :)

Okay, - I'll use basic 7th chords as our starting point, I just want to make sure everyone understands the construction of diatonic chords.

Now, when you say 'figured bass', I hope you're just meaning Roman Numeral indications of scale degrees...I don't have a firm grasp of actual figured bass (6, 6/9 inversions etc. ??)

I'd very much like to learn more about how I can apply any of the knowledge I have of jazz harmony etc and apply it to my other music...

I'd like to learn a little more about the theory behind modal jazz, I understand the modes and how to apply them, but I've never had much success improvising over so what, for example.

Okay, thanks for the input. This'll give this thread a bit more direction and purpose.

...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Robin, I have a question: When a piece/song is composed in a certain mode like locrian or whatnot, does the normal key signature have to be there? Example, if it was in B major, would you have to to have 5 sharps and still naturalize them every time, or would it be the key signature of C?

Thanks.

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Robin, I have a question: When a piece/song is composed in a certain mode like locrian or whatnot, does the normal key signature have to be there? Example, if it was in B major, would you have to to have 5 sharps and still naturalize them every time, or would it be the key signature of C?

Thanks.

I should hope not - I'd expect the composer wouldn't want to inflict that amount of pain and hardship on the musicians. Put it in the simplest key, in this case C.

Personally, as I often use modal harmony derived from numerous key centres, I never use a key signature.

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Robin, I have a question: When a piece/song is composed in a certain mode like locrian or whatnot, does the normal key signature have to be there? Example, if it was in B major, would you have to to have 5 sharps and still naturalize them every time, or would it be the key signature of C?

Thanks.

Sometimes composers will write out the number of sharps/flats in the mode, i.e. a piece in E Lydian would have a key signature of five sharps (B Major). Sometimes, though, they'll just use the key signature of the parallel major/minor scale, depending on the mode. So a piece in E Lydian, E Ionian, or E Mixolydian would have a key signature with four sharps (E Major) and E Dorian, E Aeolian, and E Phrygian would have a key signature with one sharp (E Minor) and accidentals would just be used regularly for a b7, #4, b2, or natural 6. I've never seen a piece in Locrian with a minor key signature because it technically isn't a minor key due to the b5, but it may very well be out there.

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  • 1 month later...

Play the modes, that way you get a feel for how they sound.

Improvise in a scale of C major over Cmaj7, then Dm7, then Em7, then Fmaj7, then G7, then Am7, then Bm7b5. That way, you get a feel for what the particular sound of each mode is.

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Play the modes, that way you get a feel for how they sound.

Improvise in a scale of C major over Cmaj7, then Dm7, then Em7, then Fmaj7, then G7, then Am7, then Bm7b5. That way, you get a feel for what the particular sound of each mode is.

Not quite. I could use D Phrygian over a static Dm7.

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so what is the chord progression in the blues scale?

Don't you mean, over what chord progression could you use the blues scale? :P

You can use the blues scale over almost everthing if you wanted. But the standard "Blues" is.

|I7 |I7 |I7 |I7 |IV7 |IV7 |I7 |I7 |V7 |IV7 |I7 |V7 |

Here are a couple of variations I've seen

|F7 |Bb7 |F7 |Cmi7 F7|

|Bb7 |Bdim7 |F7 |Ami7 D7|

|Gmi7 |C7 |Ami7 D7|Gmi7 C7|

|F69 |Emi7b5 A7b9|Dmi7 G7|Cmi7 F7|

|Bb7 |Bbmi7 Eb|Ami7 D7|Abmi7 Db7|

|Gmi7 |C7+9 |F7 Dmi7|Gmi7 C7+9|

:huh:

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In my opinion the blues scale works a bit better in minor keys (the flat 3rd can get in the way sometimes).

A blues progression I like:

i |i |i |i |iv |iv |III |VI|iv9 |V |i |i...

Referring back to the modes, when I improvise I think more of a key (Gmin is G minor, Fmaj7 is F major) more than I do of modes. Would knowing the modes be better, or is it pretty much the same?

~Kal

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In my opinion the blues scale works a bit better in minor keys (the flat 3rd can get in the way sometimes).

That b3 works great on dominant chords...and it'd technically be a #9. :laugh:

Mixing the mixolydian and blues scales will help alleviate the b3 getting-in-the-way issue for you...

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I've used it on dominant chords, kinda combining a Gmin7 with G+, but I mean on tonic chords it seems to get in the way. (If I use it, it's always with a nat. 3rd right after it, but I usually stay away from it).

I see what you mean about them Mixolydian thing....

~Kal

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