abernathy

Totally agree with you here, Mozart's Missae Breve are some of my favorites, especially from his early stuff. Really love the ones in C (K 259) and B flat (K 275).

I think you're being unfair. You forgot to mention the mislabeled, downloaded copies of the first movements of Beethoven's 5th and Mozart's 40th, the Blue Danube Waltz, the Ride of the Valkyries, a random excerpt from the Nutcracker suite (labeled "Nutcracker"), and the Lacrimosa from the Requiem Mass (labeled "Requiem").

It was written in German.

I think what Berg said was that Mahler's was "the only sixth, despite the Pastoral," instead of "notwithstanding the Pastoral," meaning it was even better than Beethoven's. Kind of interesting that so many sixth symphonies are considered underrated in the context of that composer (Beethoven, Mahler, and Bruckner all come to mind). This seems to be a three way race between Beethoven, Mahler and Tchaikovsky, but Bruckner and Vaughan Williams are strong dark horses in my opinion. This is a pretty cool theme by the way. Which number do you want to do next?

The piece that came to my mind was his Symphony No. 3, originally just titled "A Pastoral Symphony," but you're right on here. Vaughan-Williams' music is definitely evocative of nature, just as a general rule. In that same vein, there's obviously Beethoven's 6th as well as as Glazunov's 7th (also labeled "Pastoral") although I haven't heard it myself. One underrated piece I personally associate with nature is Tchaikovsky's 1st, the Winter Daydreams. Other assorted pieces I haven't seen mentioned (apologies if someone did and I missed it): -Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring -Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 15 (just for the nickname "Pastoral", it doesn't really remind me of nature) -Ives: Three Places in New England -Schubert: Der Jungling an der Quelle (a lied, one of my favorites I've heard so far) -Wagner: Forest Murmurs -Grieg: Morning Mood (from Peer Gynt)

Whose perception, exactly, do you propose he base his opinion on, if not his own?

I could be wrong, but I don't think Wagner ever wrote anything for the organ. The concept of an "organ piece" seems sort of anti-Wagnerian to me, in fact. Most of his works, especially his mid to late works (and all of his major works) are programmatic. He wrote a C major symphony as a young Beethovenian, and a handful of early piano sonatas, but nothing of any real note, in my opinion. His best and most famous purely orchestral work is probably the Siegfried Idyll (which of course is recommended), but most of my favorite Wagner pieces are orchestral excerpts from the operas. There are a lot of Wagner Overtures & Preludes CDs out there: I'd recommend the ones to Tristan, Tannhauser, Rienzi, Parsifal, Meistersinger and Lohengrin especially to start out. The preludes in Der Ring probably beat all these, but they're harder to isolate since they go right into the singing.

No, I know what's in the original question, although in fairness to you I suppose I could have been reading it differently. I read the question as, "Of all the reputable composers, which is the worst?" However, I think you're reading it as, "Which composer is the worst reputable?" The tone of the whole thread has been much more in line with my interpretation, which was my original point, although given your reading, I guess "Wagner because he hated Jews" is good enough justification. To be honest it seems sort of pointless to interpret the question that way but it's valid.

...which, pretty obviously, is not the point of the question.

Hi Yagan, I'm new here so you may have already gone into this in the past, but could you elaborate a little on Chopin? I actually agree with you, but I'm just curious to read your reasons. Thanks.