Who is the Greatest composer after Beethoven?

Definately Berlioz

Yes but don't get me wrong either, I love beeth and his music but, his style becomes very repetitive his music after a while bores a hole in me because it gets so boring....yes I understand what he did how many composers followed after him, but goodness I would love if he would change it around here and there but hey that's me....

Heh, I understand your point. He certainly liked repeating stuff :P To me, the way he uses repetitions formally seems so "musically clever" and beautiful though that it never bores me. In fact, I find his ability to create a varied music out of very limited material one of his greatest assets. I've always admired composers with the ability to repeat without killing the music.

Beethoven invented forms and structures generously, but he was quite "close-fisted" with his thematic/melodic ideas. So much different than Mozart.

As far as I remember this is "correct" stylisticly. Ab and Eb both NEED to be resolved to G and D respectivly. Of course the "logical" step is to go to I6/4 but I do recall that these parallel 5ths are one of the exceptions...

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But I could be wrong, I can't actually find any information on it.

Generally though, I do know that GerAug6 is incorrect to go straight V. Bach and Handel both avoided it, as others did.

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As far as I remember this is "correct" stylisticly. Ab and Eb both NEED to be resolved to G and D respectivly

You are definitely incorrect to say they NEED to resolve such ways. If I am incorrect about Mozart 5ths, it is only that that I am wrong about. Handel and Bach avoided it by going through a different Aug6 or I64.

What I mean is this:

If Eb needs to actually move a note, and not stay at Eb (by going to I 6/4 for example) then there's no other note to go but D. It is supposed to be resolved there. Either way the usage of I 6/4 in the cadenzas is mostly like a big suspension. Ab (the 9th that is), always needs to go to G, it cannot jump to B, or anything really, unless you go into chromatic movement and change to A nat etc,which is a different matter alltogether...

Yes Bach and Handel, both avoided it (at least for Bach that I know), but then again, Bach didn't exactly have in mind 9ths etc, nor he actually used I 6/4 in the cadenzes, as a clear noted chord, on it's own rights, but only as a suspension of the V...

Again memory could be hazy, but this is getting ridiculous to discuss something like this. In the end, not following a rule like that does not make a good or a bad composer, imho

[wuote]If Eb needs to actually move a note, and not stay at Eb (by going to I 6/4 for example) then there's no other note to go but D.Enat for I64 - Eb for i64.

Yes Bach and Handel, both avoided it (at least for Bach that I know), but then again, Bach didn't exactly have in mind 9ths etc, nor he actually used I 6/4 in the cadenzes, as a clear noted chord, on it's own rights, but only as a suspension of the V...

Again memory could be hazy, but this is getting ridiculous to discuss something like this. In the end, not following a rule like that does not make a good or a bad composer, imho

We're looking for the best after Beethoven? There are many many composers who are better than Beethoven! ;) Want to know about those? :D

That wasn't the point of this thread. Did you read the first post?

woah!

Nice!

Did you notice the smiley? Did you see me taking part in this thread apart from the harmony Aug6 German version "debate"? I was kidding that someone would take for granted that Beethoven was the "best" for all people and was looking for inferior composers than him. That and only that. Get it now?

EDIT:

Well let's agree on one thing:

Any composer who is dead for many years and any composer alive who deals with classical music, of his era, or of any era, and is able to get plenty of performances, be published, be played and recorded and sold to make millions of $ is great!

Want examples?

Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Clementi (yes, his books sell a lot! Especially to young age), Mendy, Rossini, Verdi, Stravinsky, Dvorak, Bartok, Ligeti, Stockhausen, Xenakis, Takemitsu, Schostackovich, Mahler, Brahms and the list goes on for another 50-100 names.

From this forum how many had their pieces performed professionally? 2-5 members in all, I say. From an amateur/student ensemble? 10-50 I say! Now how many of all the members in here, who are SO arrogant and are able to tell great from greater and bad from worst have any of their pieces published? I remember 1 name! Self published? Hmm... maybe 5 in all?

Now before you go on, just shut up (the equivelant to shuting up on the Internet would be to stop and actually think) and think how loving hard it is to do what all these composers, outside of your own taste did and have accomplished!

Now by all means this is fun and this thread should be fun. But my idea for fun is not bashing on any composer, alive or dead.

This is my opinion of most of this thread.

What about ?

Talk about him. I want to see who makes fun of who.

Two can play this game!

Ligeti, I choose you!

"ligeti ligeti! ligeti!"

i agree on ligeti as well, and as to ives, ligeti and part, we can add - MORTON FELDMAN, now he's a true master and a revoliutioner

Arvo P