The Dark Knight

A great movie, and a great soundtrack by Zimmer and Howard

Completely agree! Loved it!

I think it had its moments but there wasn't anything that really stays with you. . . not like the themes from LotR or Gladiator or Harry Potter. . .

Best movie of '08

If Ledger doesn't win an Oscar someones going to loving die.

The Dark Knight....never heard of it

Best movie of '08

If Ledger doesn't win an Oscar someones going to loving die.

*wonders if the irony was intentional* :D

EDIT: Good movie. Some minor qualms (espically at how they handled Two-Face) but this isn't a movie review forum so I'll refrain such comments.

I thought the soundtrack was solid enough. Loved the recurring Joker theme.

I don't have enough interest in Batman to go see the movie at all. I'll probably never see it.

I don't have enough interest in Batman to go see the movie at all. I'll probably never see it.

Terrible choice. You don't need to be a batman fan to see it/enjoy it

Yeah I thought the two-face thing was shoddy... but still a rockin' movie!

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How can ANYONE say this was a good soundtrack? Let's review the major themes (the only themes, if you can call them themes): Batman's: C----Eb-----. Joker's theme? The major contributions of music when he was on screen WAS ONE SINGLE HELD NOTE!!!

The last time I checked, one or two notes did not make a theme. And the rest of the music was complete background music, a couple of chord changes here and there with the strings, some synthesized drums, and a whole lot of disappointment from real film music lovers such as myself.

??????????????????????????

How can ANYONE say this was a good soundtrack? Let's review the major themes (the only themes, if you can call them themes): Batman's: C----Eb-----. Joker's theme? The major contributions of music when he was on screen WAS ONE SINGLE HELD NOTE!!!

The last time I checked, one or two notes did not make a theme. And the rest of the music was complete background music, a couple of chord changes here and there with the strings, some synthesized drums, and a whole lot of disappointment from real film music lovers such as myself.

Well it can be a theme if people associate the music with a character, etc. As long as it works. I haven't seen the film myself but looking at some previous posts it seems as if it does. Even you recognise the theme and associate it with characters. So yeah...it's a theme.

Well personally I think a motif is not a theme.

I haven't seen the Dark Knight, but I did not enjoy the soundtrack for the first film! I agree with oingo; it's just not good enough for a hollywood movie or indeed anything! Hopefully film composing will get back on track in the future.

??????????????????????????

How can ANYONE say this was a good soundtrack? Let's review the major themes (the only themes, if you can call them themes): Batman's: C----Eb-----. Joker's theme? The major contributions of music when he was on screen WAS ONE SINGLE HELD NOTE!!!

The last time I checked, one or two notes did not make a theme. And the rest of the music was complete background music, a couple of chord changes here and there with the strings, some synthesized drums, and a whole lot of disappointment from real film music lovers such as myself.

Wow, what strange pitch you have! It is clearly D and F. I'm curious why you thought it was C, Eb. That's so unusual that you have the right interval but wrong notes. Zimmer is not known for melody, but more for rhythm and I think that his contribution to the score clearly shows him doing what he does best - fast pulsing rhythm. It worked pretty well on film but is boring on CD.

Wow, what strange pitch you have! It is clearly D and F. I'm curious why you thought it was C, Eb. That's so unusual that you have the right interval but wrong notes. Zimmer is not known for melody, but more for rhythm and I think that his contribution to the score clearly shows him doing what he does best - fast pulsing rhythm. It worked pretty well on film but is boring on CD.

don't be a douche. he was simply applying solfeggio to it. transposing it into the simplest key. C - Eb is the same thing as D - F.

don't be a douche. he was simply applying solfeggio to it. transposing it into the simplest key. D - Eb is the same thing as D - F.

C- Eb you mean :P

C- Eb you mean :P

yes, a typo.

Good lord, some people really like to nitpick on here.

Is some of the film's music simple- yes. However, this is not a good criteria for judging a soundtrack.

A better way to evaluate it would be: Does it still cause a certain effect or support the movie? If it does, then the film's score achieved its goal. If not, it didn't. Saying music has to be complex is not the way to judge value or effect. Look at Erik Satie's Gymnop

Just imagine the scene where Elliot and ET fly past the moon, supported by a Zimmer motif... :sadtears:

Those aren't tears of joy!

The soundtrack was effective but forgettable. More forgettable than Transformers, which was equally as effective.

There was a moment in the movie, I think it was the ending, where the music really stood out as something really nice. I think it's the part with the voiceover.

I like how they handled two-face. He wasn't too prominent, but it's cool that they did that. I mean, he really can't do too much aside from shooting people and being ugly.

I didn't like the score, either. It was rather bland. However, it did do what it was supposed to (make the movie better), so there's no reason to bash it.

I like how they handled two-face. He wasn't too prominent, but it's cool that they did that. I mean, he really can't do too much aside from shooting people and being ugly.

Spoiler warning!

It wasn't that. It was that they basically gave him the Venom treatment. Two-Face was always my favorite Batman villian and they spent a good deal of time hyping Two-Face. But then, he has maybe 10 minutes of screen time then is killed in one of the most anti-climatic ways possible. Why couldn't they have him escape so he could be the villian in the next movie? *shakes head* To their credit though, at least Two-Face didn't kill himself by blowing himself up with a grenade.

Oh, and don't get me started on how The Joker seemingly had the power to teleport at will around the city.

... *sigh* Sometimes I think I should be a film critic instead of a composer.

It worked pretty well on film but is boring on CD.

This is like judging a video game console with no game running. Incomplete. Sure, soundtracks have become very popular and many people listen to them outside of the film. I know I do. However, like I said in my previous post, film music exists to support and enhance the experience of the film. It isn't there to make a great CD or live concert. Now there are soundtracks that do both- and I would consider this the ultimate achievement for a score. However, it is not the main goal of the music.

Take away a large portion of the experience (the dialog, the visuals, the sound design and the context) and of course the music will become less effective. The other thing many young composers don't seem to consider is how all of the other audio elements influence and dictate what the composer can do. They just focus on what music was written. The Dark Knight is an intense film with many battles. Each time you have battles, Hollywood tends to throw all kinds of sound design into it. Hollywood also likes to throw in sexy, smart one-liners between the good guys and the bad guys. All of this deeply influences what the composer should do- from both an artistic and practical stance. The artistic stance deals with pacing, and creating the rise and fall of tension during the sequence. It also deals with matching up cues. The practical overlaps a bit because cues are important here, but so is frequency. For example, if I'm writing music for a battle the uses alot of low, loud explosions (like storming the beaches in WW2) then I know the sound design will already occupy the lower range of audio frequencies. It would only make things sound muddy and unbalanced if I were to orchestrate all of the music in a low fashion, with taiko drums blasting and drones to create suspense. So, I'd need to create music that focuses on the lesser used audio frequencies. It is all a balancing act. The same thing goes for sections where the action is slow, and dialog heavy. The dialog is the most important part, and your music shouldn't cover it up but it should support the exchange. As I've told many of my students (when I was teaching an audio course in college) "if you're covering up the dialog (or voice overs) then you're taking away the most important element at that moment. The dialog takes precedence over all other audio elements." Would you like a movie where you can't hear many of the lines? Would it hurt the experience? Yes, it would.

Frankly, I see alot of young composers on here blasting this soundtrack or that soundtrack- when they don't really understand all of that goes into making a film score work. I know some of you have stated that you hate working on film scores- and that is fine. It isn't for everyone. But what I want people to realize is there are so many factors that go into making a film score happen besides just writing the music. I haven't even begun to touch on:

*development cycle: what happens if the film is going over budget and past it's launch date. I've seen it happen- and it makes all of the post-production crew hustle to get it shipped. This can be a major negative factor.

*pleasing the director and/or crew: Directors: love em and hate em! I once worked for a director that couldn't make up his mind. He would ask for changes and I'd give him my viewpoint and opinion- but he is the client. So I'd make the change(s) and then he would want it back the way it was. This happened five times. Irritating? Yes. Part of the job? Yes. Sometimes you have to write music that you feel wouldn't be the best material because you're out voted. Unless you're of the stature of John Williams, many crews feel that they can approve or reject material you present. If you get too much of a big head- then the crew knows there are 10,000 other eager composers wanting to take your spot. Many of them are more than willing to work for a fraction of your rates too- if not for free, so you pick your battles well. (By the way, the very same stuff goes on when making video games as well.)

So the next time you're ready to bash a soundtrack- take a second to remember it is much harder than just writing music. I think that is why I've heard so many composers on here say they hate it. I personally, LOVE it! It is stressful and takes a good deal of time- but when it all comes together- it is all worth it.

This is like judging a video game console with no game running. Incomplete. Sure, soundtracks have become very popular and many people listen to them outside of the film. I know I do. However, like I said in my previous post, film music exists to support and enhance the experience of the film. It isn't there to make a great CD or live concert. Now there are soundtracks that do both- and I would consider this the ultimate achievement for a score. However, it is not the main goal of the music.

Why can't I judge the music in the context of the film and outside the context of the film? The best film music stands up just fine outside the film and its a completely valid assessment especially in a composer forum. Yes, yes, I am aware of the demands on film composers to deliver the product that is film music to someone who might not understand music, but all film composers have that same restriction and some can still make some amazing music in addition to serving the film.

Never said you couldn't judge it outside of the film- just that any judgments you make would be incomplete because you're not taking the music with the rest of the assets it was created to support, enhance and support. Why can't I judge a chapter of a book outside of the rest of the novel? Well, I can. However, I may be missing some other important factors and my opinions may be off because of it.

Yes, I'm well aware that some film scores are also incredible pieces of music that carry their own weight outside of the use in film. This is why I stated second to last sentence that you quoted me on.

Nathan, most of your comments are completely irrelevant regarding the nature of this score. I was complaining how the actual motifs used were very simple and not up to what I consider to be 'par' in film music. For such dynamic, interesting characters, Zimmer comes up with a two note theme?!?! This is mind-boggling to me, and it has nothing to do with frequency levels, development cycles or anything - I simply don't think a two note theme is suitable!

I commented on the output of Zimmer and Howard, nothing else. I don't really care what kind of work is put into it - there are plenty of film composers working under the same exact restrictions and I LOVE their music! I just don't like this score, and that's all. It's also a stylistic difference I have between Zimmer - I don't find any of his scores appealing, and I really don't have to defend that position.

p.s. there was a moment when Batman and the Joker were talking in the interrogation room, when the Joker was on the floor cackling and being crazy. The one note that acts as the Joker's theme was swelling and growing louder and it really added a level of insanity to the scene that I rather enjoyed. there - one moment I liked, and it was because of the atmosphere that that one note created.

I may seem scallopy, but I can't believe Zimmer has gotten as much work as he has. So, I complain out of jealousy I guess! ;)