War of the Elements - Theme (RPG Fantasy Game)

Hey I wrote this for a game a friend was making (online rpg, a bit like warcraft or dungeon siege) called War of the Elements

he likes the music but i wanna see what actual musos think!

please tell me what you think! It is orchestral instrumentation.

Length: 3:15

Size: 2.7mb

Format: mp3 128kbps

download: http://benburch.atspace.com/

(first song in list)

it is nice, kind of standard, but overall good (Y)

Well it is not epic enough and it needs a lot of sound improvement. Could be a bit more than chords, a wee tune and snare;)

Well it is not epic enough and it needs a lot of sound improvement. Could be a bit more than chords, a wee tune and snare;)

please elaborate:)

Updated the website in OP

please comment guys! i need to improve :D

This is almost irredeemably dull.

Hubert has given you the most complete feedback he could considering the piece itself, but I'll expand his point into more words so that it's easier for you to digest.

What he's trying to point out is that there is absolutely no distinguishing substance to this piece. All you've done is repeat a very basic chord progression in the strings over and over and over ad nauseum and occasionally thicken the string chords with a flute in a vague attempt at being melodic. And then there's a snare that just...twiddles here and there for added effect. There is literally almost nothing to this piece up until the final quarter where you finally stretch out a bit and write some more significant material.

Granted, being game music, one could assume that the entire first part is meant to accompany some terrible text-based introduction or a cinematic or something, and therefore is meant to be so static and repetitive, but even then I would have liked to hear you try and experiment a bit with orchestration or rhythm or timbre or SOMETHING so that it doesn't come off as so painfully dull. This piece is "orchestral" only in the sense that you've used orchestral instruments. Otherwise it's thinner and more simplistic than even a good deal of pop songs, which should not be the case.

My comments are meant to cut through your little bubble of comfort a bit and point you in the right direction. You want to improve? Thicken up your writing significantly. Learn some orchestration (via textbooks, practice, teachers...whatever floats your boat) and be more creative in your writing. We don't need another cookie-cutter composer in the media composing industry. Work on finding your own voice. Set yourself apart from the crowd, or above it — at this point you're not even on par with it. Work on your production skills: you have good sounds at your disposal, but learn to sequence better, work on learning how to properly master your tracks in post-production so they don't sound so painfully thin and flat. These are all things to keep in mind as items to strive for — obviously you won't be able to just learn these in one shot, but aim to pursue them because it'll help you immensely.

I listened to a couple of the other tracks on there too for reference and they're all plagued by the same thin, uninspired writing. If you want to get work doing this kind of thing, then you need to do a lot of work yourself to make your productions really shine. If you have to spend 2:30 doing nothing but repeating the same sequence over and over again, then you better find a hell of a creative way of doing it or no one's going to have the patience to listen.

Find yourself some good orchestral game music to listen to and really LISTEN to it. Understand what Soule, Uematsu, Lennertz, Giachinno, etc actually do when they write a successful piece of game music and try to learn from their examples. Don't just regurgitate their stuff though; learn from them and access their techniques from your own perspective.

Good luck.

We don't need another cookie-cutter composer in the media composing industry.

Whoa! I would like to make a comment on that but I'm afraid of the new rules...

Anyway, I think the piece is a little stale as Marius said. You have some nice sounds but you need to work on how you use them. Some of the harmony is nice the melody's are functional but nothing new, I think you have potential and don't worry about "finding your own voice" one day you'll be composing and it will just happen.

I listened to some of your other pieces I liked 'A New World' but again it could do with some better orchestration.

So listen to lots of cool music and experiment with your orchestral sounds and you'll get better.

Fourthage actually points out something — I think I know what you were going to say before the rules discouraged you.

YES, the industry technically does thrive on cookie-cutter composers and so what I said was wrong; however, what I meant I still stand by, and that is that we SHOULDN'T be encouraging that kind of mentality because it's cheapening the quality of work. Were you getting at something like that, fourthage? :)

Hi Ben, I think you have a lot of good ideas here that can be better executed... I noticed that there wasn't legato playing in any of the phrases... using cc controllers, depending on what orchestral library you're using, you can create more fluid lines...

Also, I'd like to add that you captured the feel for that type of composition for action games with your harmonies and rhythms...

Compostion is a life long study, so if you don't get great reviews in some of your first pieces don't get discouraged...

I would suggest as a way of hands on learning orchestration, get yourself a piano copy of "pictures at an exhibition" and then get the orchestral score by Ravel.. analyze each piece, learn the harmony, learn the melody at the piano first, and then look at what Ravel would do to convert the piano score into an orchestral piece... That would give you a good understanding of converting 'piano chords" into orchestral writing...

Now I'm assuming that you have a thorough knowledge of all the instruments of the orchestra... If you don't, you can always get orchestration books that will teach you about ranges and where the instruments sound best as you analyze the piece... But I think you learn better by being able to refer to a piece of music, as opposed to just learning things as a dry scholastic exercise... Pictures at an exhibition is something you can wrap your head around easily... Anyway, keep writing and remember that each gig is an opportunity to learn something...

Ben

First off welcome to YC

The music does fit the cookie cutter and if that was what you were going for then you succeeded.

I understand you asking for comments. Isn't that what we all want? Try listening to some of the other music here and comment on it. You will learn about music by doing this, as it forces you to think about what you are listening to and some here will actually return the favor and listen/comment on your music as well.

Ron

Ron

This is almost irredeemably dull.

Hubert has given you the most complete feedback he could considering the piece itself, but I'll expand his point into more words so that it's easier for you to digest.

What he's trying to point out is that there is absolutely no distinguishing substance to this piece. All you've done is repeat a very basic chord progression in the strings over and over and over ad nauseum and occasionally thicken the string chords with a flute in a vague attempt at being melodic. And then there's a snare that just...twiddles here and there for added effect. There is literally almost nothing to this piece up until the final quarter where you finally stretch out a bit and write some more significant material.

Granted, being game music, one could assume that the entire first part is meant to accompany some terrible text-based introduction or a cinematic or something, and therefore is meant to be so static and repetitive, but even then I would have liked to hear you try and experiment a bit with orchestration or rhythm or timbre or SOMETHING so that it doesn't come off as so painfully dull. This piece is "orchestral" only in the sense that you've used orchestral instruments. Otherwise it's thinner and more simplistic than even a good deal of pop songs, which should not be the case.

My comments are meant to cut through your little bubble of comfort a bit and point you in the right direction. You want to improve? Thicken up your writing significantly. Learn some orchestration (via textbooks, practice, teachers...whatever floats your boat) and be more creative in your writing. We don't need another cookie-cutter composer in the media composing industry. Work on finding your own voice. Set yourself apart from the crowd, or above it

Fourthage actually points out something — I think I know what you were going to say before the rules discouraged you.

YES, the industry technically does thrive on cookie-cutter composers and so what I said was wrong; however, what I meant I still stand by, and that is that we SHOULDN'T be encouraging that kind of mentality because it's cheapening the quality of work. Were you getting at something like that, fourthage? :)

Not really, more that, I seem to remember somebody telling you that you needed to work on a more distinctive voice for your compositions and I find it difficult to hear your own distinctive voice.

I find the discrepancy between what you believe and what you compose to be somewhat insincere... Of course if all composers could convey their musical ideas musically then we'd all be millionaires.

I think that as long as the music is well thought out and has quality then ideas such as distinctive voices, especially in a composing industry are less important.

Not really' date=' more that, I seem to remember somebody telling you that you needed to work on a more distinctive voice for your compositions and I find it difficult to hear your own distinctive voice.

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Oh! Yes, that's true too — it's a common enough comment. We're all learning improving here (I would hope), myself very much included, so I'm just passing along the insight that I gained so far.

I find the discrepancy between what you believe and what you compose to be somewhat insincere... Of course if all composers could convey their musical ideas musically then we'd all be millionaires.

You can interpret it as you like' date=' but I don't see how me striving to emulate my beliefs accurately in music is insincere. The fact that I haven't reached my goal yet in your opinion is hardly a mark of insincerity. I don't remember claiming at any point that I had reached the standards that I aspire to.

I think that as long as the music is well thought out and has quality then ideas such as distinctive voices, especially in a composing industry are less important.

Fair point, though I maintain that it's an important idea to try and keep in mind, even if not as the driving force behind one's work. I think that the real craft is being able to express one's own musicality through the restrictions and guidelines of the project.

Pretentious condescending overtones aside, i greatly appreciate you taking the time to listen and provide a relativly detailed critique. To be honest I agree with everything you said, I need alot of work as far as orchestration goes and general melodic and accompanying material.

Don't take it as condescension — we're all equal here — I just dispense with sugar-coating in exchange for clarity. You know you enjoy your work and that you want to pursue this, so I don't need to bother tossing idle compliments at you: I'm more interested in telling you things I think might help you improve; things to look out for. It's all just my opinion anyway, from a random guy on an internet forum, so don't take it too seriously. ;)

Yeah i am still familiarising myself with the software i am using an dont know a great deal about controllers and whatnot. I have GPO but I also used some other sound fonts. Also I will definetly study the ravel, its a great piece of music.

If you go to the northern sounds forum, garritan has a great forum there and there are a LOT of tutorials on how to get the best out of GPO... There's a lotta life in GPO if you use it right... Some people there have done extraordinary work using just GPO... They also have a course in orchestration based on Rimski Korsakov book.....

To get the best out of GPO, piano roll view is your friend, you are able to edit your controllers and notes more easily in that view... What program are you using to sequence???

If you go to the northern sounds forum, garritan has a great forum there and there are a LOT of tutorials on how to get the best out of GPO... There's a lotta life in GPO if you use it right... Some people there have done extraordinary work using just GPO... They also have a course in orchestration based on Rimski Korsakov book.....

To get the best out of GPO, piano roll view is your friend, you are able to edit your controllers and notes more easily in that view... What program are you using to sequence???

Thanks for the info. Im using FL studio 8.

Thanks for the info. Im using FL studio 8.

I've heard of that, but Im' not familiar with its functioning... However, it's my understanding that the vast majority of sequencers have something akin to piano roll view, to make edits of controllers and other note parameters a lot easier... Anyway, keep posting and let us know of what your next composition is...