String players, help with harmonics

I've been looking at this Ravel piece trying to work out what the strings are doing at the start, and I'm kind of baffled by it. I understand what the 2nd violin is doing but are the others also playing harmonics? If so, why are they notated differently to the 2nd violins harmonics? If they're harmonics, how are they fingered? Thanks in advance

When you've got a half-note head that's beamed, that just means that you oscillate between the notes, which are usually on adjacent strings. For example, if I had two half-note heads beamed with a sixteenth beam, then I'd play one note and then the other, and repeat, with each note as a sixteenth note. In the case of that Ravel, I'd guess that you play the arpeggio as fast as possible, while keeping in the rhythm of the second violin part. I'm not entirely sure about this particular example, however. It would seem to work just fine if you used regular 64-th notes (as insane as that sounds). Huh.

The problem is that these aren't half-note heads - they're diamond shaped, traditionally indicating a harmonic.

My guess would be that the second violins are playing natural harmonics (which hey definitely are, since they're on the G-string), whereas the others are playing the artificial harmonic produced by touching the string a major third above where it's stopped. In this case, it would be stopped by the nut, not a finger. Then again, I'm not sure if that qualifies as an artificial harmonic...

But yeah, that's my best guess. Natural vs. artificial harmonics.

The most reasonable interpretation I can think of (although I'm no string player) is that these are arpeggiated quadruple stops, made up of harmonics. Each of the four notes is played on its own string, and the left hand doesn't have to move at all. This kind of notation, were the noteheads ordinary ones, would without question suggest an arpeggiation of that sort, and is a common string idiom. This device is new to me, but I imagine it's no more difficult for the players.

In the first violin, the G string is fingered at B (sounding as the B two octaves above), the D string at G (sounding D two octaves above, like an ordinary "touch fourth" artificial harmonic, but natural), the A string at E (sounding E an octave above) and the E string at B (sounding B an octave above). You'll find that the violas and cellos are playing the exact same fingerings on their instruments, sounding (from the bottom) as E, G, A, E (in various octaves that you can calculate if you like).

A string player might be able to comment on the feasibility of fingering that chord. I've always assumed it to be good practice to avoid writing multiple stops with fifths (except of course on open strings), where two strings would have to be fingered at the same position--although that whole matter might better be the subject of another thread, does the fact that these are harmonics make it easier to deal with?

I believe in this example the strings are playing harmonics on the open strings - touching the string lightly at where the indicated note would be. Kind of a cross between a harmonic "sweep" and [[bariolage]].

A string player might be able to comment on the feasibility of fingering that chord. I've always assumed it to be good practice to avoid writing multiple stops with fifths (except of course on open strings), where two strings would have to be fingered at the same position--although that whole matter might better be the subject of another thread, does the fact that these are harmonics make it easier to deal with?

No, not really, but the arpeggiation and the slow tempo keeps it from being too hard anyway. It is good practice to generally avoid non-open string fifths in multiple stops, as you said, but in this case, the arpeggiation keeps them from being true multiple stops. I mean, as you said, they are basically "arpeggiated quadruple-stops" - yet different.

the artificial harmonic produced by touching the string a major third above where it's stopped.

Being stopped by the nut would still be a natural harmonic.

Notation varies on harmonics... all of these are natural.

The notation is chosen for the second violins because it is a harmonic gliss. on the G string. The

Also... that isn't [[bariolage]]... Think the third violin partita of Bach when you think Bariolage

And... uh.. artificial harmonics are a 4th above.... USUALLY...

http://www.musicalobservations.com/publications/docs/1968_harmonics.pdf

Here's a nice guide.

^Normally, yes, but you can produce the same type of harmonic by touching any note a major third above the area it's stopped, whereas I'm not sure if that's necessarily true otherwise. It's really kind of ambiguous, so Ravel or his publisher might have gotten confused.

Well I'm just confused... since none of those harmonics are artificial.

The diamond note heads are being used in the way they way they are, because the string players are all stopping notes in first position without moving the left hand at all. I've seen it written like that in scores for other string pieces.

The harmonic glissando is just written the way it is because of the motion of the left hand. That's all.

guys, the strings are playing natural harmonics.

violin 1:

G string: harmonic node at the 3rd, sounding B natural (2 octaves and a 3rd up)

D string: harmonic node at the 4th, sounding D (2 octaves up)

A string: harmonic node at the 5th, sounding E (1 octave and a 5th up)

E string: harmonic node at the 5th, sounding B (1 octave and a 5th up)

The harmonic on the G string would require one finger.

The harmonic on the D string would require one finger.

The harmonics on the A and E strings could be played with a single finger.

What? Oh, I was misreading it. I thought they were all at the same spot on the string, because I only read the bottom harmonic and assumed they would all be on the same position in the other strings - a major third above open. Sorry. :D

Anyway, that doesn't explain the differences in notation between the second violin parts and the others, since really, everyone is playing natural harmonics.

The second violin is only playing on one string, doing a harmonic sweep. The others are doing arpeggios on all 4 strings.

If you look carefully at the score, it is written "gliss" on the 2nd violin part.

That means a short glissando up and down the string, in harmonics - barely touching the string with the left hand.

Sweet, thanks everyone. It's a really cool sound, I might use something like it in a piece...