Double stops on violin and cello

I asked half of this question in the "Cello Double Stop Question" below but I didn't get a response so I figured I should probably make a new thread.

My question is essentially this: are the above double stops playable by decent professional string players? I strongly doubt that some of them are, especially the cello ones, but I thought that I'd throw it out there to all the string players on this forum on the off chance I can leave it as is. Would using harmonics on any of the notes make it any easier? I don't know if it will be performed (It's a piano trio for a competition) or who the performers may be if it is performed so I can't contact the performers directly.

Thanks, Spoon284

From what I can tell, the violin stops are all do able. Especially with the tempo that you have writen down.

I don't play the cello, but I think they are fine, but I don't know for sure... wait. Treble clef? I don't know anything about stops up there.

Rythmically, m.16 and 17 are a little strange to read.

Can't comment on the double stops, but for goodness' sake, get rid of the triple-dotted notes (and the double-dotted notes, for that matter)... it looks like crap and is incredibly confusing.

I'm not a cellist either, but to me they all look possible. Of course, in this high register, where the notes lie rather close to each other, intonation is going to be more problematic for such doublestop passages, but that's a matter of practicing the piece.

And I agree with Dead Chicken and Flint that there are some problems with the rhythmical notation. 16 seems fine to me (you might replace the first doubledotted quarter with a quarter tied over to an eighth though), but avoid the triple dots in measure 17 in favour of tying notes over to the next beat, and break up the beam that connects the third to last 32d with the doubledotted eighth in this bar and in bar 19.

The treble clef in bar 11 is superfluous and I see no need to write a tenor clef in bar 14, just for a single note. I'd keep it in treble.

P.S. How I would notate those rhythms:

Bar 17 at least like this:

But better like this:

Bar 19 at least like this:

But better like this:

Thanks for the advice guys - Gardener, these are just bits and pieces of a piece, so in the actual score the tenor clef at bar 14 is actually the start of a short passage and treble clef at 11 is actually necessary. I'd really appreciate some feedback from a cellist ASAP though, since I have to send this off by Thursday at the absolute latest.

Yes the cello stuff is possible, but it would not be much fun. And it would likely sound horrifically out of tune. If you have a very good cellist, though, this shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Ok, thanks. I've decided that to leave it as it is. I'll try to get around to posting the full piece shortly.

There IS actually a book, "The Study of Orchestration" by Samuel Adler, that as well as naming literally ALL of the techniques of the orchestra, it lists ALL the double, triple and quadruple-stops possible on all four of the string instruments.

It's a FANTASTIC book. I would recommend it.

Actually, it doesn't list all of them. I own a copy of the book so I wouldn't have made this thread if it did :P

It doesn't say anything about double stops up that high, nor does it say anything about sustaining them for fifteen seconds. It is still a fantastic book, but don't take its word as gospel, ESPECIALLY when writing in a chamber setting - a solo cello can play much more difficult stuff than an orchestral cello section. It's much better to ask people who play the instrument if they can try a passage out for you... as you can see I don't know too many pro cellists :P

TBH I was stupid enough to reply without looking at the passage properly and realising that the cello was in the treble clef. :blush:

I normally ask a string player (or a player of an instrument from another family) whether the technique I'd like to use would work properly.

If they don't know, then I'll look at the book, and if I can't get the answer from the book, then I'll post the problem on the board.

That's why this board is so great. :)

will not sound well.. Oistrach and Rostropovich would have been able to play it as it is written, but.. With this slow tempo, it wont sound well because of the bowing-difficulty, the chords, the instrument-quality, the high pitches... (of course im talking about 9-12..) violin hates double stops in the high register.. cello either, but the thumb helps them. so, of course, possible. but just technically.

learn something about strings. look at the instrument. and listen to violin-violoncello duos! it will help you. if you have questions (about cello, cuz im a cellist) i am ready to answer them, if you want. i just want to help :)

good luck

(sorry)

Just curious: any reason why you didn't use grace notes in mm 17 & 19 instead of 32nd notes?