Sonata for Violin and Piano (4th mvt. in progress)

This is my first "major work" which I have started, and plan to finish by the end of the summer. It's to be a violin sonata in four movements, to be about 10-15 minutes long.

I. Cadenzas (completed)

II. Capriccio (completed)

III. Nocturne (completed)

IV. Finale (in progress)

I will be bumping the thread with updates from time to time; probably whenever a movement is finished. Let me know what you think!

NOTE: Please bear with the MIDIs; I know it sounds horrible and "col legno" and other effects don't play back. You may have to use imagination when it comes to the extended techniques. :)

I'm thinking about submitting this piece to the Morton Gould Young Composers thing...anyone have any thoughts? (I have until March 2010!)

Last updated 11.7.09

Hi mate,

Already PMed you about the MW forum, but here's my feedback:

I think that this is a great 1st movement, with plenty of ideas, wealth of adventure and style, aesthetically coherent. A very well crafted and composed 1st movement. The score also lends to the ease of a sight reader!

The only thing I noticed:

Your rhythmic language seems borrowed from earlier times. I don't mean it with a mean way, or anything, it's just that there's not enough variation, or interest in that. My works also lack this diversity in rhythm and I particularly like continuous quavers, or crotchets or whatever.

Also, it does seem a little weird that "Like Heavy Metal" in the end... You might want to reconsider that, but only if you want to stick to more classical performers and people who are slightly close minded. I personally don't mind it, and I see what you mean with those 3 pitch chords in the violin. ;)

I assume you want col legno battuto and not col legno tratto?

I would reconsider the way you've notated some things -- your notation of some extended techniques can be clearer.

I agree that some rhythmic variety would be beneficial to the work.

I agree with nikolas, I liked it too and I'm really looking forward to the whole piece.

I had my thoughts about the rhythm too, but I thought the steady crotchet-grid was intentional, as some kind of grotesque march (and well, you even had the word grotesque at the beginning). Sort of like some stuff by Shostakovich. (But well, even Shostakovich-like would of course be "from earlier times".)

But this certainly made me expect a somewhat less static pulse for the next movements. If the next movement is similar rhythmically, then it would get too much for my taste. But maybe it would give it a nice touch to let the rhythm "stumble" already in this movement from time to time by adding some unexpected rhythmical shifts (like Messiaen's valeurs ajout

As a violinist, I greatly enjoyed reading through the work.

A great introductory movement.

There was some problem with extended techniques that sort've confused me, but it was better after I looked at it again. Quite an easy read.

Clean composition, inventive in places, and a joy to play as well.

I look forward to the following movements.

Wow! Thanks so much for all the comments! I really really appreciate it; especially since this is my first time writing for a solo string instrument, haha.

@nikolas: yeah, I got your PM. I understand, the work isn't complete enough yet; I probably should've written a bit more before trying to post in the MW forum, huh? :D

I originally started the piece as a sort of "Salute to Shostakovich", actually, so I did indeed borrow a lot of his rhythms, and more "old-fashioned" rhythms. Believe it or not, I wanted this piece to be less "out there" than some of my other stuff...doesn't seem like that happened!

The "like heavy metal" marking at the end was just the way I thought of it...I'm still considering changing it to something classier. Then again, I may just keep it, haha.

@charliep123: That is indeed col legno battuto, not tratto...I realize now that I could've notated that better, so I'm working on changing it (among other various things, like the notation of the extended techniques). The notation for the extended techniques really bothered me, so I'll either change it or include a kind of key to all the symbols and noteheads. -.-''

@Gardener: To be honest, the original tempo marking read "Shostakovich-esque" but my band director didn't agree. -.-'' For some reason he said the piece "...made sense, in a George Crumb kind of way." I'm working on the 2nd movement now, and will definitely try making it rhythmically more interesting.

The "beyond the bridge" bowing on page 2 is not really a multiple-stop, just a loud screeching, so I didn't really expect any exact quad-stop there. Just a down-up-down was what I had in mind. Again, notation issues...I will fix! The col legno notes...I probably wasn't thinking then. Will fix, of course.

I prefer the piano strings to be muted with the fingertips because it has a slightly deader sound, if pressed hard enough. Especially at that range of the piano, the strings are thinner than the lower strings and don't really sound harmonics as easily (at least in my experience).

The guitar pick I was considering changing. I don't know; the fingernail pizz sounds really nasal to me. Also, pianists are supposed to have pretty clean-cut fingernails, so there may not be much of a nail to pluck. :/ just a thought. But that is definitely something I'm considering changing. Along with all the other extended technique notational issues.

The pedal starts where the horizontal line starts. Personally it looks less cluttered to me, and I was following Jennifer Higdon's lead, since she did the same thing in one of her pieces. Now that you mention it I should probably clear that up a little.

@MaestroMarvel: Yup, I'll clear up the extended techniques as soon as i figure out how, lol.

Again, thanks everyone for their kind words and advice. I'll post an edited version of the score ASAP.

EDIT: I've just posted a *slightly* revised score! Cheers. :)

I love the back an forth motion between the violin and piano. Great dissonances throughout! I don't really have a whole lot to say. I thoroughly enjoyed this. I'd love it if you could find someone to perform it live, or even a computer program with better instruments :p You know that already, but I just thought I'd put in my own two cents.

Look at other scores, try and notate things based on things you see coming up over and over. It'll make things easier for everyone. Also, notation guides are crucial!

@Jimmyjuicin: Thanks! I'm going to try to get a recording as soon as possible, so when the entire piece is finished I can submit it and a recording to the Morton Gould Award at ASCAP.

@charliep123: I have an abundance of Jennifer Higdon scores, and I use those mostly for "notation reference", if you will haha. Occasionally I'll look at some Crumb, too.

Wow, I really didn't expect to hear something like this based on the title. It's AWESOME!

I really liked what you did with this piece. The semi-modern language was a real treat, as well as all the effects you employed. I liked imaging it over the dreadful midi sounds :D

As far as teh simplistic rhythm goes, I agree with Gardener. I see no problem with a march like rhythm, in fact, sometimes the simpler the better. I'm notorious for using a simple rhythmic drive, but I think it gave this piece it's character rather then being deterimental. Just vary up the rhythms in later movements since a static rhythm is best not used throughout an entire work.

The one thing I will say is that I didn't care for the form that much. I understand it's pretty much a theme and variations, which I did enjoy, but maybe highlighting a sub-theme here and there would do this piece better justice.

Overall however, I was just being nit-picky since I had to find SOME kind of constructive criticism. The piece was flavorfull and really enjoyable to listen to. Can't wait to hear the later movements! PM me when you post them.

Vince

Hi blackballoons,

It seems you are interested in the ASCAP competition so I have some words on that.

After listening to the first movement I think you have a good chance in the competition. The judges definitely like this type of modern music that isn't avant-garde. I've noticed that usually most winners have this sort of style and pieces that are too avant-garde are rejected. In 2008 I wrote a piece in this style and won, and in 2009 I wrote a very avant-garde piece that received finalist standing but did not win. Thus, I think you will do well; the piece is very imaginative and enjoyable.

It is important to note, however, that you shouldn't place too much importance in these competitions. As shown by the trends i explained above, the competitions are very biased and music is too subjective to be judged. So, whatever you do, just enjoy composing in whatever style suits you best. The awards and accolades will come.

@thatguy: Thanks! I was considering changing the title back to the original programmatic title (Strange and Violent Scenes, lol) but it sounds a bit drastic. -.-''

Corbin talked to me earlier about how I could've developed more...a bit late to make those changes now, but I'm still trying out things with this movement. :)

@ttmaster2004: Hey! I saw your thread earlier (Fantasy Trio, I believe?) and was quite impressed. :) Of course, I've heard that Morton Gould can be really biased, but I'm still going for it so I can put it on a college app or resume later on. Idk, maybe Curtis likes that. :D Thanks for the advice, man. :)

yes . it is good

so not much flaws in my ear

Hi everyone!

I'm bumping this thread, now that movement 2 has been uploaded; it's still a draft, but at least it's completed for now! :] Let me know what you all think.

- Thomas

I play neither the violin nor the piano, but I thought the 2nd movement was very different and interesting in a very good way. It's a little bit on the random side, but I enjoyed listening.

@whateverfin: Thanks! I suppose it was a little random...I tried to make it cohesive, though. :D

I think it's definitely cohesive. It'd be a little strange to rehearse, but very effective whenever performed.

More movements!!

good work

Tommy Boy!

Okay, so I'm going to restate some of my comments from your other thread:

I still think the second grace note at the beginning should be removed. And I think that this would benefit from more vibrato instructions on your part.

In addition, your gliss on the piano strings in bar 33 is way out of place. If you want it to be effective/not sound out of place, you need to include at least one or two more instances of inside playing. I also wouldn't write "flautando", from my experience, tasto is more immediate. And you can always say "molto tasto" or "molto pont." to show more extreme bow placements than "tasto" and "pont."

Your score needs some cleaning up... well a lot of cleaning up.

Other than all that, I'd say that this is a huge improvement from what was posted before! This movement is now on par with the first and you've really done some great stuff in it. I enjoyed it a lot.

Tommy Boy!

Okay, so I'm going to restate some of my comments from your other thread:

I still think the second grace note at the beginning should be removed. And I think that this would benefit from more vibrato instructions on your part.

In addition, your gliss on the piano strings in bar 33 is way out of place. If you want it to be effective/not sound out of place, you need to include at least one or two more instances of inside playing. I also wouldn't write "flautando", from my experience, tasto is more immediate. And you can always say "molto tasto" or "molto pont." to show more extreme bow placements than "tasto" and "pont."

Your score needs some cleaning up... well a lot of cleaning up.

Other than all that, I'd say that this is a huge improvement from what was posted before! This movement is now on par with the first and you've really done some great stuff in it. I enjoyed it a lot.

The beginning...personally I still like the second grace note. I haven't really warmed up to the idea of omitting it yet, but I'll think about it; I remember in the previous thread you said it sounded a bit clumsy.

As for vibrato...I'm not really entirely sure what kind of vibrato I want for this, and I'm just leaving it up to the performers for now. I don't want to be really too restrictive, especially as I already have for the pianist and the pedal markings and such. Of course, I'll definitely take it into consideration, though.

That piano gliss in 33 DID sound out-of place...ugh. >< Will delete.

Right; flautando is synonymous with sul tasto...haha, you know, until you posted I had thought flautando meant "with much bow". -.-'' Thanks for the reminder; will change.

I totally agree; the score does need major clean-up-age. Now to do that is a bit complicated...but that's what I'm working on at the present.

Thanks for the feedback! That was really really helpful. :]

I listened to the second movement:

It sounded like it would be difficult, a little, but the music sounds good. The piano accompaniment is well written, and certainly accompanies the violin

Good work!

Heckel

I listened to the second movement:

It sounded like it would be difficult, a little, but the music sounds good. The piano accompaniment is well written, and certainly accompanies the violin

Good work!

Heckel

Thanks, Heckel. :]

Yeah, I can imagine it would be difficult to put together, what with all the loose rhythms and tuplets...I was going for a watery feel though.

Again, thanks for the comment. I appreciate it. :D

Hi everyone,

I've finished rewriting the first movement of my sonata. The score and MIDI have been attached to the first post of the thread. Enjoy, and leave comments! :]

Hi everyone,

I know I haven't been active around the forum lately, but I'm back, after working on this work for a bit. 2nd movement and 1st movement have been finished (drafts, of course) and the 3rd movement is pretty much set.

Let me know what you guys think! :] MIDIs and .pdfs are in the first post.