The Ice Symphony

Ok guys. Here it is! The Ice Symphony.

Orchestration:

2 Flutes

1 Alto Flute/Piccolo

2 Oboes

1 English Horn

2 Clarinets

1 Bass Clarinet

4 Bassoons (2 double Contrabassoon)

4 Horns

3 Trumpets

2 Trombones

1 Bass Trombone

Timpani

Bass drum

Harp

Piano

Strings

First mvt:

MIDI: The ice symphony.mid - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage pdf: The ice 1.3.pdf - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

Second mvt:

MIDI: THe Ice 2.mid - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage pdf: THe Ice 2.3.pdf - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

Third mvt:

MIDI: the ice 3.mid - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage pdf: the ice 3.3.pdf - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

Fourth mvt:

MIDI: The Ice 4.mid - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage pdf: The Ice 4.3.pdf - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

Hope you like it! Comments/criticisms welcome!

I listened only to the third movement.

The extensive use of quartal harmony left me waiting for a resolution.

The fact that it did not happen until the last chord (sort of) was a bit odd, but I liked it.

Also, if the way the timpani sounds in the midi is how you want it to, then you should probably write it for some sort of tom- the "timpani" sounds nothing like timpani.

All in all, pretty good :)

I listened only to the third movement.

The extensive use of quartal harmony left me waiting for a resolution.

The fact that it did not happen until the last chord (sort of) was a bit odd, but I liked it.

Also, if the way the timpani sounds in the midi is how you want it to, then you should probably write it for some sort of tom- the "timpani" sounds nothing like timpani.

All in all, pretty good :)

Thanks. Timpani always sounds bad on midis. :P Ron told me how to get an mp3 up, so hopefully, when I get home in, oh, I'd say 1/2 hour, then I will post the mp3. (posting at my neighbours house while my father is at a meeting. BORING!)

This is very good. Listened to the first movement so far, will listen to the others soon. I really like this one! :)

Thanks for posting everyone. Keep 'em coming!

good but too short

ending very suddenly

good but too short

ending very suddenly

hehe.... That was my only concern :blush: Oh well. Glad you liked it for the most part! Now I am gonna try to get to bed.

Well, first off, good luck with 4 bassoons if this is ever performed. 2 is usually the max, but I guess if you get some contra players, they will have bassoons of their own. But then again 2 contras is also rare. The flutes or whoever is in front of them will likely be sick from the vibrations by the end, lol.

Anywho, I've only listened to the first movement so far. I like what you have, I think it's developed decently enough (not that I can say much, development is my weakest point) and the movement itself is written well, I also like your use of the recurring theme, and it's nice that we hear it once more in full declaration as the movement ends. Good work on that front.

But I wish it was a bit bigger , had more variety and was a WHOLE LOT FASTER. Not to say I always think the 1st movement should be fast and big, but considering this is just so spaced out because of the tempo already, and then you have whole notes and half notes everywhere, it just drags on. It's only 7 minutes and it felt like a lifetime when I was listening. I'd expected 10 minutes at least to have gone by when it finally finished. If I were listening to this in a concert, I'd be bored out of my mind, and that's a bad foot to start the symphony on. There's hardly anything to grab the listeners attention. Even minimalist music(which I think you might have been going for somewhat in the beginning) where you have 1 note every few seconds is exciting enough because the listener doesn't know what is coming, and when you have silence, even 1 quiet note is bright and piercing and resonant. You have a lot of droning bass and a lot of parallel octaves across multiple instruments, in addition to the tempo. I honestly think this movement would be immensely better even if it was just 20 bpm faster than where you currently have it. OR...add some more sixteenths or even 32nd or 64 notes just to add some flair in the accompaniment patterns. I like the melody/motif that you have recurring, it give me a sense of connection to the piece. I got excited in mm. 24 with the piano run, I thought something was about to happen. Something did, with the triplets being introduced, which was a nice variation and gave me a new sound to hear, but I still wish there was something to add a bit more life to the piece(not to say that it's dead, just bored). Just my opinion.

Also, be careful,(only in playback) that you don't get to crazy with the soft dynamics. Some of the ppp markings you had made instruments completely silent if not just unable to be heard beneath other instruments. I had my media player all the way up, and my computer all the way up (neither of which are usually necessary) and I still couldn't hear the pianississimo's. If you make the entire thing 1 step louder, it will have the same effect in playback, but it will be completely audible. It's a shame to write in parts that can't be heard, even with my sounds all the way blasting. In performance, this won't be a problem because conductor and instrumentalists will ensure there is balance.

Overall, it is well written, but it could be so much grander and able to grab attention, which is what you want for the first movement of a symphony, an attention grabber.

yea, I was working on fixing it up, but here is what happened:

Me: Daddy! I can't get the accel to work!

My father: Well here. I will help you

Me: It isn't working!

MF: I don't know why.

me: Ugh! I give up!

So I gave up with that. :p

Haha. I know how finicky finale can be. Sometimes, for playback reasons, if the rit. or accel. aren't working I manually put in a different tempo marking. Just so I can personally hear it getting faster, to see if that is the idea I'm going for. I take these out for the final draft, but for my own sanity, I have to conquer finale, even when it doesn't want to work for me.

Hej, I listened to the part 1 3 and 4. Somethings I liked, some things I dont, but that is just because peaple have different tastes.

Some practical advise:

Part 4, woodwinds. Nice repetetive idea. But the players need to take a breath. Is think Ob1 and Cl1 will faint before ms 20. ;) You need to divide their part over 2 players

Haha. I know how finicky finale can be.

I use Sibelius, and that can get hard too. Now I have to leave the house!

I use Sibelius, and that can get hard too. Now I have to leave the house!

Highlight the passage that you want the tempo variation to be. Then pick the appropriate marking.

Once your'e back to viewing your score, click on the tempo variation (rit., accel., etc.) Go to the upper right corner where you have the little boxes that give you different toolbars. Go to the one with the check, that says 'Properties'.

Go down to the part that talks about tempo. I'm telling you this from memory, but you should be able to figure it out from here. There are a couple of options you can pick. One is linear or early or late. That means does the tempo change happen evenly, or sooner, or later? And then the other one is % or bpm. This means do you want it to slow by 75% or do you want it to go to 75 bpm eventually?

That should help.

Still waiting on a mp3

Ron

Ron: I used your instructions on how to convert it to an mp3, but it still doesn't work. :p

Hey Heckel,

I don't have time to take a look at this now...but if you like I'll take a look at it later. (Let me know!)

Just one thing, though: looking at your instrumentation, you're having the alto flute double on piccolo. Not a great idea; alto flute embouchure is very very different from piccolo embouchure, and if you make one person play alto and piccolo in the same piece, it could cause some problems. I suggest you have a flute player double on picc, or double on alto. Being a flutist myself, I speak from experience; I never play an alto AND picc at the same concert!

You can look, BB. I might change it to Alto doubling flute, and second flute doubling Picc. Actually I will. Thanks for the advice! Keep the comments coming!

Alright, Heckel...I'm not an orchestral writer at all, so I'll only give you advice on what I know! (Which, orchestrally speaking, isn't much, haha.) Probably just flute things, 'cause that's my specialty. :)

Just looking at the score here...I like how you started this. Any flute in its low register is of course a very lovely sound, and it's good to see that you made use of it! I'm assuming the arrows means to bend the tone down?

Ooh sitar. Interesting choice, I must say. :) Nice chords too; adds interest.

As the piece progresses, I can see you have some good ideas. I like this a lot better than your other piece, to be honest, haha. (Well, just looking from the first movement.) I have flute lessons now, so I gotta run, but I'll be back later with some more comments, kay?

Keep up the good work. :)

Well, I REALLY like the 1st movement. It's definitely my favorite movement. Now, the other movements are good, but they need a little more variety. Also, I know I mentioned this in the shoutbox but, you tend to repeat a measure about 4 times in a row. Try to cut out some of the repeated measures, or edit them to make each one a little bit different. It will make a huge difference! :)

Sounding good! :)

Alright, Heckel...I'm not an orchestral writer at all, so I'll only give you advice on what I know! (Which, orchestrally speaking, isn't much, haha.) Probably just flute things, 'cause that's my specialty. :)

Just looking at the score here...I like how you started this. Any flute in its low register is of course a very lovely sound, and it's good to see that you made use of it! I'm assuming the arrows means to bend the tone down?

Ooh sitar. Interesting choice, I must say. :) Nice chords too; adds interest.

As the piece progresses, I can see you have some good ideas. I like this a lot better than your other piece, to be honest, haha. (Well, just looking from the first movement.) I have flute lessons now, so I gotta run, but I'll be back later with some more comments, kay?

Keep up the good work. :)

Thanks!! The arrow does mean to bend the tone down :)

Well, I REALLY like the 1st movement. It's definitely my favorite movement. Now, the other movements are good, but they need a little more variety. Also, I know I mentioned this in the shoutbox but, you tend to repeat a measure about 4 times in a row. Try to cut out some of the repeated measures, or edit them to make each one a little bit different. It will make a huge difference! :)

Sounding good! :)

Thanks. Keep the comments/complaints coming!

I think this is great work! I instantly got the vision of "ice", actually ice caverns, especially with the opening movement being quite mysterious, and with frequent dissonant chords. I thought it was very artful.

I also liked the second movement, the rhythms in the strings being well placed, and making it exciting.

The percussion in the third movement, in the beginning, gave me a feeling of water dripping from the stalactites on the ceiling (as the music gave me a picture), and I enjoyed that.

The more positive feel of the fourth movement was also nice.

Throughout all four movements, I did like the fact it the melodies hinted at a sort of journey taking place. (through ice caverns in my head, although I don't really know what you were going for)

The fact that you did pay attention to making sure the "theme" of each song was known to the listener is also quite good, not that i'm an expert or anything. :P

My criticisms would be throughout the all four movements, the music would seem to be anticlimactic, and seemed to lack definite climax points. Also, the music did seem to be drawn out, and as well put together as it was, I did find myself growing slightly bored...So I would suggest trying to put in your music points where it would all build to, rather than just making melodies here and there without really going anywhere, even though it's very creative and such, it does get drawn out....

Oh, and I liked your instrumentation too! It fit well together, and the instruments did a good job of fitting their roles. :)

(and sorry for not replying on pager, I can't reply until I've posted 20 times) :P

Thanks Lacy. Glad you enjoyed it, for the most part!

Ok

For one, it's late and I'm tired, but I can't sleep. I told you I would give this a listen, so being insomniatic tonight has given me the chance to give this work a proper listen.

An mp3 would REALLY do this justice, because the midi playback is awful. But, it still managed to get your point across, I was mainly interested in the score anyways.

Movement 1: This section portrayed the arctic very well. The pedal bass was a plus because of the mysterious voicing over it. It set the mood well. You had a good thing going, but I found the transition to the strong bass rhythmic theme a little abrupt. Granted I suck at transitions, so I really can't talk about it, yet since I suck at them maybe it's easy for me to spot that flaw lol. I really like that bass part though, it's strong. You also have a nice crescendo afterwards. There was also a section (I forget where) closer to the end where you have flutes playing a melody, but the midi is playing trumpets. Not really that bothersome, but I thought you'd like to know. This was your longest and most bold movement, which I think the length was fine. I'll agree that I thought it was longer when I noticed it was only 7 minutes, but meh, it was done well. :) The one thing I wish you would have done differently in this is brought back some of the earlier material. The beginning section would have sounded cool if brought back at the end, or even the 3 beat bass pattern. Would've gave it more closure as well as might have been good to set up the second movement. But, I'm not the composer, you are, and I think the way it is is very well written.

Movement 2: This was my favorite out of the 4 movements. You have a great driving rhythm going on, and you build it up well by adding instruments. Well done! I really don't have any complaints on this section, the length, mood, yada yada were all fantastic. The interplay with the theme was good too, great use of color. However...

Movement 3: This to me was the weakest movement. A REALLY easy fix to this would be to make it an extension of the second movement, mainly because of the rhythm. You have a driving pulse in the second movement, but the same pulse is there for this one. If I were you I would mold these two sections together. You can keep a lot of your same material, but I would transition this as the second half of the previous movement. Just commenting on this section, however, there were some beautiful chords in this, especially at bar 51 with the winds. Nicely done!

Movement 4: This was my second favorite. The music that I've listened to so far from you has been very rhythmic, which I like, and the 7/8 feel to this was superb! I loved the quirky little theme bouncing all over the place, it was very picturesque. I didn't particularly like the unison brass at bar 45, maybe just add some thirds (or at least 5ths) in there to take away from the thin texture, but again, you are the composer, not me. You kind of flirted with something in this movement that was good, which was changing up the harmony. You had been keeping a static harmony going with a pulsating texture, and at bar 59 teh bass changed. That simple rise of the bass line was wonderful in your music, but then you fell back on that A (I think). I would have expanded that a bit instead of falling back to the repeated notes. However, at bar 82 you did exactly that! Your simple changing of the chords with the same rhythms were magnificant! Even if you don't go back and fix anything up on this in the future, I would just keep in mind that when you have a static rhythmic pulse going, just changing a few notes here and there are ear candy :) Very fun movement, a great way to close the symphonic work.

Overall, I think the rhythm was excellent on this piece. Even though a lot of it was the same, you employed different techniques to enhance it, maybe just brush up on the harmony a bit. I'm really impressed with the colorful chords throughtout this as well. I'm glad that you are using colorful chords instead of basic triadic harmony (which for a 10 year old is amazing). Some of the ranges seemed a bit unplayable, and you really need to add slurs in your music (I don't think I saw a single one), but overall this is a great achievement for you as a composer. I'll definately look out for more of your music to witness improvement (we all need it lol) as you grow into a great composer, which by the way you're already on the right track!

Great work!

Vince

I only listened to the first movement so far.

Everything seems to flow nicely . The only thing that sounded a tad bit awkward, to my ears, was the transition around.. 2:30...

Sounds good so far.