EWQL Gold or Platinum?

So, I've done my research and come to the conclusion that EWQL makes very good products. But I'm unsure if Platinum is worth the price over Gold. I checked the website, and I suppose I didn't check thoroughly enough because nothing jumped out which made me realize why there's nearly a 2:1 ratio in price. I just want to give my compositions a professional touch to them like most of the sketches I hear from members here have. So, does anyone with EWQL experience want to inform me?

Also, concerning how professional you guys make your compositions sound, what do you use besides a good sample library? Do you guys use Cubase or Logic or Pro Tools? I'm very unfamiliar in that territory and need tremendous help there. Up until now I've only composed with Sibelius 6 and a full version of GPO, but as one can guess that isn't the most lush realistic sounds you can get, and I'm wondering what else besides a sample library or VST will help with that.

Hi Josh,

The reason there's such a vast price gap between Gold and Platinum is because Gold only comes with one mic position; that is, the samples are all provided with a single distance from mic to instrument, meaning you get a certain amount of reverb built in to the samples. With Platinum, you get 3 mic positions, including the "close" mic versions which are very dry and are therefore the preferred samples for mixing libraries with because you can control the reverb yourself with an independent plugin like Altiverb. You can also buy extra mic positions for Gold now individually, if I remember correctly. In any event, for someone like you who's just starting out with the realm of professional sequencing, Gold is more than enough and will make you very pleased. I wouldn't consider Platinum until you know how to make use of it and have the sequencing skills and additional plugins to do it justice. Unless you have some cash to throw around, in which case you may as well nab it.

While Sibelius (or any other notation program) is wonderful for scoring, especially if you're into note-based composition, when it comes to actually producing a realistic rendering, you must use an actual dedicated sequencing package. Any of the ones you named are perfectly viable, and the one you pick depends on your budget and preferences for workflow and interface design — they all do basically the exact same thing, and the differences won't be relevant at your level. Produced with a sequencer, even GPO can sound magnificent....it's all in the MIDI editing and tweaking for realism. You have a steep but necessary learning curve ahead of you, I won't lie, but it's well worth it.

At this point, I would suggest Gold over Platinum without question, and that you try demos of the sequencers available for your operating system to see which one suits you best. :)

Good luck!

The main difference between them is that the samples are recorded from mics in 3 positions: Close, Far and Stage. In Platinum you get free access to all of these. In gold, you only get one for each "instrument" (they're almost random choice).

This can be a problem since if you only use "Close" mic's instruments, you have no stereo positioning.

There are less instruments in Gold but you won't miss anything important.

The samples in Platinum are of a higher bitrate (I think it's 24-bit for Plat and 16-bit for Gold) but I confess, I can never here the difference between those bit rates.

Remember that Gold has an addon: Gold Pro XP

And similarly Platinum as: Platinum Pro XP

When I was buying (better check this) you could upgrade from Gold to Platinum at anytime and only pay the difference - this is a great idea, since you can start on Gold and upgrade later when you have the money and when you start hitting Gold's limitations.

As regards DAW. I use Cubase and Sonar. I would recommend Cubase. Also, many people prefer to use a good sampler plugin like Kontakt - rather than using the sample that comes with the library. In my day the 'free' sampler was Kompakt, these days it's called Play - so I don't know what that's like.

Remember that when you're into DAW teritory you really need a proper sound card or audio interface to get the latencies down.

EDIT: Oh lol, I was late. Interestering differing interpretations of the mic positions lol.

PS. What is your signature pic from? Looks awesome.

Well, if the sound card is important than wouldn't it be safe to use Pro Tools since the Mbox 2 has the sound card inside? That way there's no screwing up on my part. Regardless, my computer holds nearly 700GB and has 8GB of RAM as well as a Quad core, so I assume the sound card would be up to snuff as well, but I don't know how to check. As for EWQL, I'm tempted to get all three mic positions, but if I can just add in my own reverb as I please, then Platinum sounds pointless. Now, this plugin that adds reverb, is that something that's going to cost an exorbitant amount?

What I'm trying to achieve with all of this is to have Sibelius 6 for composing note by note (I can't stand MIDI keyboards, I'm more theory than performance based) and always having a hard copy of the score if I ever have my compositions performed live (which I will often at my school) and use a separate DAW and sound library to have a pretty realistic sounding copy to show here, to people, to colleges, and much more of course. Perhaps that narrows down what DAW would work best for me?

Also, I'm greatly inspired by late romantic and modern composers, as well as modern video game music (Uematsu and Hamazau rule), and the greatest inspiration of all, Progressive Rock (HLCIMT, my signature pic is from the inside cover of Yes' "Close to The Edge" album). I want to take all of these influences and morph them together but lean more towards the orchestral side. I know I need a great orchestral library, and I've already got Arturia's minimoog VST which would add an insanely interesting flourish to any orchesta :lol: but are there any other EWQL samples that you might recommend? Any interesting percussion or world instruments that might provide interesting soundscapes?

I have a 64 Bit Windows Vista by the way.

Well, if the sound card is important than wouldn't it be safe to use Pro Tools since the Mbox 2 has the sound card inside?

Yes? Or you could just get any soundcard and any DAW :D

From what I hear (not tried it myself) Pro Tools is good for recording audio. Cubase seems to be favoured for midi (including sample libraries). Then of course there's Ableton for truley enlightned musicians (DJs :P). Those are the 3 main categories.

Regardless, my computer holds nearly 700GB and has 8GB of RAM as well as a Quad core, so I assume the sound card would be up to snuff as well, but I don't know how to check.

Sounds an awesome computer. Make sure you have a 64-bit compatible DAW (they all should be these days) and operating system, in order to make use of all that memory. I think Play is 64-bit compatible, but better check - otherwise Kontakt might be a necessary purchase.

As for EWQL, I'm tempted to get all three mic positions, but if I can just add in my own reverb as I please, then Platinum sounds pointless. Now, this plugin that adds reverb, is that something that's going to cost an exorbitant amount?

What marius means is, any sample that isn't "close" already has reverb on it, since it was recorded in a hall.

Any sampler has a simple reverb plugin already. Kompat does, I assume Play does, and Kontakt most definitely does.

What I'm trying to achieve with all of this is to have Sibelius 6 for composing note by note (I can't stand MIDI keyboards, I'm more theory than performance based) and always having a hard copy of the score if I ever have my compositions performed live (which I will often at my school) and use a separate DAW and sound library to have a pretty realistic sounding copy to show here, to people, to colleges, and much more of course. Perhaps that narrows down what DAW would work best for me?

Also, I'm greatly inspired by late romantic and modern composers, as well as modern video game music (Uematsu and Hamazau rule), and the greatest inspiration of all, Progressive Rock (HLCIMT, my signature pic is from the inside cover of Yes' "Close to The Edge" album). I want to take all of these influences and morph them together but lean more towards the orchestral side. I know I need a great orchestral library, and I've already got Arturia's minimoog VST which would add an insanely interesting flourish to any orchesta :lol: but are there any other EWQL samples that you might recommend? Any interesting percussion or world instruments that might provide interesting soundscapes?

Oh god the list is endless. Storm Drums (I think its' on version 2) gives loads of filmy percussion. It has lots of individual samples as well as pre-made tracks using those samples. World instruments is Ra but it's a bit limitted. I haven't been on their site in ages, just browse around, I'm sure there's plenty of goodies.

PS. Are you going to tell me what your signature pic is?!

I already told you what the signature picture was. You even quoted it. :lol: If Cubase is more MIDI based than that sounds better. I just need to be able to compose in a nice easy fashion on Sibelius, export the MIDI to a DAW and then make it sound lush and realistic.

Also, is there any way to buy individual samples instead of huge expensive libraries? I need a few saxophone samples because I compose for my school's wind ensemble all the time, and all I've got is Gen MIDI for Sax's. <_<

Also, what's this iLok dongle that the website mentions?

I already told you what the signature picture was. You even quoted it. :lol:

Oh yeh oops! :rolleyes:

If Cubase is more MIDI based than that sounds better. I just need to be able to compose in a nice easy fashion on Sibelius, export the MIDI to a DAW and then make it sound lush and realistic.

Oh I didn't mean to give the impression that Pro Tools can't handle MIDI. It's very capable of what you are suggesting there (with Sibelius). Essentially all the DAWs do the same things as each other. The differences come down to reliability, compatability, user interface. I can recommand Cubase in all of those areas. Pro Tools users would probably do the same for Pro Tools.

Also, is there any way to buy individual samples instead of huge expensive libraries? I need a few saxophone samples because I compose for my school's wind ensemble all the time, and all I've got is Gen MIDI for Sax's. <_<

The problem is, you need a huge amount of samples to make a single instrument sound realistic. I'd imagine the sax is really hard to do. There are companies that do sax libraries, or brass in general, like this: http://www.eastwestsamples.com/details.php?cd_index=989

Also, what's this iLok dongle that the website mentions?

It's a copy-protection device. You need it in a USB slot to be able to use the software.

So, when it comes to individual instruments...no. Damn. :lol:

What DAW is the most user-friendly I suppose? I assume all of them have the steep learning curve that was mentioned before, but which DAW is just most organized in terms of its interface and doesn't have an intimidating appearance?

Once I get a DAW, will it be best for me to get a starter pair of studio monitors? All I've got now is just some $50 speakers with a nice bass output.

I'm hoping to upgrade from Sibelius 5 to Sibelius 6, get EWQLSO Gold, and a DAW for under $1500. Obviously, money left over is nice.

Hey Josh,

I use EWQLSO Gold in Sonar which has worked very well for me. Unfortunately to get the right effect sometime you have to drag parts "out of time" which is fine unless you also want the sheet music for it (in which case it sucks horribly). I've found that Finale/GPO generally have the most realistic sound as far as "notation" programs, although Sibelius is much more user friendly. But I'll also have to reiterate that the realism is generally the outcome of good editing, mixing, and mastering. Good luck with your setup!

No, I always need a perfect pristine score, so dragging things out of time is an insane no-no.

No, I always need a perfect pristine score, so dragging things out of time is an insane no-no.

I'm afraid you will have to compromise here. Keep you Sibelius score pristine by all means, but in a DAW you will be looking at it in a 2D graph (x-axis:instrument, y-axis:time) so shifting it a little before the beat is not big visual change. Anyway, you will get use to all this much quicked when you actually have the prog. in front of you and you're learning it for yourself.

So, when it comes to individual instruments...no. Damn. :lol:

Oh there are hundreds of libraries of individual instruments! I just can't be bothered to find them for you! Try other manufacturors. There must be a few jazz people on this site. Ask them.

What DAW is the most user-friendly I suppose? I assume all of them have the steep learning curve that was mentioned before, but which DAW is just most organized in terms of its interface and doesn't have an intimidating appearance?

I would say Cubase. Sonar isn't much different.

Once I get a DAW, will it be best for me to get a starter pair of studio monitors? All I've got now is just some $50 speakers with a nice bass output.

Yes that could be an idea. There is a whole range of setups between 'amateur' to 'pro'. If your ears are good enough to warrent good monitors then the next step is to think about the room you're in. Covering the walls in foam is a bit far perhaps but duvets in strategic locations can help. ANYWAY! You've get enough learning to be doing with your daw before you start think about monitors and room treatment.

I'll just say that a cheap alternative to getting good monitors is to keep your normal speakers and get good headphones - and then learn the various reasons why this is a BAD idea, so that you can get around them. Just a thought for the money conscious.

I'm not going to give any more long replies on this post. I'm distracting you more than helping I think.

Hmm...I don't like the sound of that...but I guess I'll figure it out when I get a DAW. I think I'll wait on studio monitors or go for the headphones, since I'm already low on desk space. :lol: Cubase is a good deal more expensive than Pro Tools though. (500:300) I'm unsure what to do there. <_<

Hmm...I don't like the sound of that...but I guess I'll figure it out when I get a DAW. I think I'll wait on studio monitors or go for the headphones, since I'm already low on desk space. :lol: Cubase is a good deal more expensive than Pro Tools though. (500:300) I'm unsure what to do there. <_<

Cubase = $500

Pro Tools = from $10000

:hmmm:

Don't even think about Pro Tools LE.

Hi Joshua, just my two cents.

I compose in a similar way to you. I've recently upgraded my software a bit so I now have EWQLSO Gold in the PLAY engine, Sibelius 6 to start with and then Cubase 4 for editing.

There's no reason that I can see to get Platinum over Gold at your level. I would like the additional mic positions, but PLAY comes in with a built in system to adjust the level of reverb on each instrument. You certainly have enough to make realistic sounding pieces. The other very important thing to bear in mind when writing for a virtual instrument is the samples you use. In EWQLSO Gold, for example, you can select Strings -> 18 Violins and then you choose the style. Butter Legato, Lyrical, etc.

If your computer can handle it (and by the sounds of it yours can) then study how to use keyswitches. I've just started using these, and the effect on your music is amazing. If you can master keyswitching, as well as automation and adjustments to things like velocity in a DAW, then you'll produce some very believable sounding stuff. Even with just basic "Piano Hall" reverb preset.

[sorry for double post: glitch. How do I delete?]

I would like the additional mic positions, but PLAY comes in with a built in system to adjust the level of reverb on each instrument. You certainly have enough to make realistic sounding pieces.

As Marius has already stated, the instruments were recording in a concert hall so all samples (except for close micing) have a degree of 'natural' reverb. The reverb you are refering to is optionally additional.

And as I stated earlier, the true important of the different mic positions (in my opinion) is their impact on stereo imaging. Admittedly, this isn't the highest thing on the mind of a newer-comer to sample libraries, but sooner or later it will become important. Many people use panning to make their mix 'wider' and to stop the instuments being clumped together. However, the brain is very capable of detecting tiny time differences in the sound perceived between the left and right ears, and this is equally important in directional perception of a sound. The Far and Stage samples are recorded on stereo mics from the conductor's and audiences positions respectively, so the snares far-miced, for example, are 'heard' to be on left, and the snares close-miced sound central, even before panning. This (as well as the reverb issue) is why its useful to be able to choose between close and far mic positions.

And as also stated early, all this is irrelvant if their 'refund upgrade' deals are still in force.

Hmm...one day I'll get into stereo panning in the way you mentioned, but for now I won't be needing it. So...is Pro Tools LE really not worth it at all? If so, I'll go with Cubase 5 DAW. Opinions please?

I bought EWQL Gold last year, and it has assisted me in composing insanely. Even though at the time i wanted the Platinum version i'm glad i did not, since I was already trying to do things that were over my head to begin with.

Especially someone who is jumping from Sibellius to a DAW i would seriously consider starting off slow.

But anyway for a DAW i would recommend Logic Pro 9 since it was originally built for notation. It would be a very great start for you in a DAW, since you will have tools in there that you learned from Sibellius.

Hope this helped

-the New guy XD

I want to throw it out there and say that Pro Tools LE (at least the edition I have, 7.4) is NOT the DAW you want if you're thinking about purchasing EWQL. It crashes constantly, there's alot of latency and it doesn't work with MIDI very well in my experience. The latency is a huge issue, and the only way I know of to get rid of it, is to turn down the hardware buffer size. If the buffer size is too low, it will crash after just a few tracks. And when this happens, you run the risk of losing data even if you've already saved it.

All this happens even though I have an excellent PC that I specifically customized for EWQL. Specs are 2 dual core CPU's 2.0 Ghz apiece, (basically a quad-core, but better) 4gb of ram, etc. It does run with the Mbox, by the way.

I would definitely not recommend using Pro Tools with EWQL, unless you want Pro Tools HD, which is like $10,000. My next purchase will likely be Cubase. Don't get me wrong, Pro Tools is a beast for audio work, but for stuff like this, I've found it to be horribly lackluster.

Another very intuitive and fun DAW, rock-solid and easy on the computer is a new one called Presonus Studio One. I highly recommend trying the demo. :)

I went from Silver to Platinum and have never looked back. Yes, you get 3 mic positions on all instruments (except piano), and the option of 24 bit samples, which have a wider dynamic range over 16 bit samples. Play's own reverb is processor hungry, but to be honest, the samples are so good, you won't really need any additional reverb. There are a mountain of DVDs to load up, which took me around 17 hours! I use this with Cubase 4 which works well with about 3 or 4 instances of it loaded. You'll need to have a reasonably spec'd computer as it works by streaming the samples from the HDDs. Depending on how ambitious you intend to be with your mock-ups will determine whether you should go the Gold or Platinum option. I do a lot of documentary work for Discovery and Nat Geo, so I need to have as realistic sounding libraries as possible. I've been using Cubase ever since Atari ST days (remember those???), so it's the only DAW I've ever used, and can therefore not comment on any other. As regards to your monitors, if you're happy with the sound, then carry on using them as your ears will already be calibrated to them and be able to make a more accurate judgement on mixes than you otherwise would having to get used to a new set of speakers. Plus, you don't have a huge budget to play with, so it would mean you could spend more on the kit that you really need. Hope that was helpful.

Just noticed that the last post in this topic was in May! Did you get sorted? Which library and which DAW did you choose in the end?

Edited August 22, 201015 yr by Kev1