3 Elegies

Well, my initial feeling was perhaps there was a 2d feel to the piece as opposed to the full 3d. A glance at the score does make this seem so. Perhaps you could experiment with the addition of a rhythmic pulse to sort of help fill in the sonic landscape? In regards to the 30 mins of a half note melody.... if you peruse the works of Sibelius as well as some works even earlier... you will see this nothing new (then again, there really isn't anything new under the sun now... is there?)

Well, my initial feeling was perhaps there was a 2d feel to the piece as opposed to the full 3d. A glance at the score does make this seem so. Perhaps you could experiment with the addition of a rhythmic pulse to sort of help fill in the sonic landscape? In regards to the 30 mins of a half note melody.... if you peruse the works of Sibelius as well as some works even earlier... you will see this nothing new (then again, there really isn't anything new under the sun now... is there?)

I had not the illusion of making something new or ground braking. It was more a possible explanation for possible boredom, to see if that whats lacking. Your suggestion of a pulse seems to underline this. Looking at the first movement, that had several moments where there is a more pulse.

Pulse in the third movement is already added: the tuplets at ms 136 are new, compared to the older version. Another rhythmical improvement is the addition of tuplets like at 183, 187 and 191. And another way to give a pulse is the use of a rhythmical 7/8 section. So I have already tried to push this movement forward...

Another explanation could be at ms 32 I introduce something that appears as a new theme (could well have been the B theme) but is not. It's the same theme, but 8 times as fast... The real B theme is introduced as late as ms 78...

I think your confusing what I mean by pulse... the music is propelled further here on several fronts: 1. the rhythm, 2. your choice of harmonic progression, and 3. your overall structure. This work doesn't necessary need a pulse for propulsion purposes (and again, this is in reference to the 3rd movement.) Your opening is the strongest here. Your overall treatment of the orchestration is lush and very rich in filling out all three planes. However, as the piece moves forward - whether you lost steam... or what not... - it goes from being 3d to 2d. For example, measures 136 - 152 are much better than measures 279 - 290. Again, this is my own opinion here (i'm sure some will disagree). I think the reason why the piece has that feeling of something missing is that you go between 3d and 2d throughout the whole of the movement (though, tbh, its mostly the second half). This could be all subjective as well... who knows. My idea of the pulse is to utilize what you did measures 136 - 152 with the ostinato (if thats what one could call it). It definitely made all those half notes sound far more interesting and nicely filled in the sonic landscape.

I listened yesterday to the first 2 movements

I think they are really good! The second is sad at the very beginning, like Angela said. I like the traditional harmonies at the beginning of the 1st

I'll listen to the 3rd as soon as possible.

Heckel

testing

testing 2

I like it a lot

test again

work :)

real work ?

this is a real work:)

sorry, I hope you fixed the multiple thread thing.

test again

Hey Mr.Cramer, I listened the 3rd one, ... I found it a little "lost" but that's ok, remember I like the descriptive music with a meaning or a story, but that doesn't mean your piece lacks of something indispensable... actually really sound like your style (well what I've seen so far) .... just a question ....

What's the matter with that last note in the piccolo ?

Also, the balance (speaking about the recording) should be better, I don't use finale but in your mixer must have the way to set volumes, because some woodwinds sound louder than they should and brass weaker, ... just to give a more realistic sound.

Anyway it was good....

Hi Daniel.

Maybe its good for an elegy to feel lost :) But I can imagine you find it not descriptive enough.

The piccolo is something I intended to end each piece with. I dont know why. Its like the dying high pitch I felt was fitting for an elegy. The final measures of the 3rd movement are not quite to my satisfaction, so any ideas are welcome :)

About the balance. Yeah, Finale has a mixer. I can't remember I actualy changed those settings. But can you point out where you hear the woodwinds overpower the brass? I want it to sound as realistic as possible with the means I have (thats just Fin09 ;) )

The Libraries should already come with fixed balance in their samples, because I've seen (not your scores) that non-real way of sound delivers a wrong idea to starter composers, a flase simulation of what they write and gives a sort of miseducation about orchestration, they think a passage will sound good in that way but the truth is that it will never sound that way .... anyway, what can we do ?

About the "not descriptive enough", I think your language is not clear enough to me, maybe (just a suggestion) you should try to compose not that far from tonalilty, perhaps you're not ready to write in that way, or maybe your learning how to do it, .... or .... maybe, that tonality thing is just a personal taste.

Also, I don't know who finale users do it, but those score with so many staves are difficult to me to read, i use 1152x864 in a 17' screen and i have to use a tiny zoom to fit the entire page in my screen, if I don't see the all staves i get lost sometimes,

does finale always suggest you to use individual staves for clarinet I and II or oboe I and II ?

I will have to get myself a bigger screen because when I start my opera will be a problem orchestra, singers, choir ... uf!!! is so huge that kinda scare me

Hi Daniel. About the mixer and balance thing. Can you give an example where the ww are louder than the brass, and it is not as it should be? I am a bit relying on the fact (you stated it as well) that I think the GPO library is balanced as it is.

Help is appreciated

On the big score issue. I have bought a screen with pivot function. But since I am using linux there are some issues with pivoted screen using a windows program in linux.

As I work now I focus on a group. Strings or woodwinds and so on. Recelnty I printed my score on A3 format paper (don't know what is like an US equivalent. It is twice the size of a A4, which is almost like the letter format) This way I have the much needed overview, and it feels incredibly good to see your own score printed

I saw this work is favored once by cjdarnieder. Thanks!

The big sheet paper used here is the "Tabloid" 11'x17' which is twice a "Letter" size, that's very good for orchestral scores, and of course feels good to see you own scores printed, I have printed all my finished works, and some are very heavy books, like the Op.20 or the Op. 12....

The Balance, they are actually a few details not big deal.

I think the horns are too weak always but I know the Horns of GPO are not good at all, wel I don't like them, sound like some cheap Saxhorns, maybe for piano may work but not for forte .... perhaps a little loud and a bit to left in PAN, Also Trumpets/trombones to Right, leave the center for woodwinds only.

The Mute trumpet at Page36 m.99 is not heard, also the snare drum in following bars.

The Contrabassoon is always too load, almost like a trombone, and the cymbal at the last pages isn't loud enough.

Perhaps you should try a Reverb VST, the one I use "Leslie Sandford Reverb" is very good because you can adjust each reflection, (if you're interested I can tell you how to get it).

OF course all this is to get some realistic sound, but your recording is good enough the way it is now...

Hi daniel.

The GPO that came with Fin09 is a lite version of GPO 3 or 4. So no layers in the horns (thus the forte is not realistic); the brass has no mutes. (the horns mute in the 2nd movement don't work either)

The panning is done by finale itself. I have no experience how to do this. Any advise how to make the mp3 is really appreciated, as is the way to get the reverb thing you mentioned. I never use it because I find the result often to much. Makes the sound and lines and articulations so much less clear and diffuse. Dislike that...

The reverb that came with Fin09 had to many presets and drawers etc. I don't know how to use that properly. So any guide is welcome :)

thanks in advance

Well to create a better recording I strongly suggest you to change to Cubase

Scores programs are focus to the scores, not to Audio,

All what you have to do is to export a MIDI file and open in Cubase, there you will be able to do a lot of things, like correcting the Velocity values of notes easily, adjust automations of volume, pan, etc, add effects or Reverb configs to specific instruments, but you know what ... if you feel unable to manage those Audio software or adjust a lot of knobs (which is something you won't be able to skip) you should perhaps stay on Finale or be willing to spend horus trying to find out how to use that thing... is up to you.

Some members are willing to render other people's works, ... I could do it, ... just let me think about it ok ? ...

I really like this piece. You can really feel the emotional journey, not just from the harmony but form the choice of timbre in each section. Movement 1 seems to have a very longing/desperate quality to it, and it has some really lovely melodic lines in the winds. The string passage at the beginning of movement 2 is very effective. I wasn't too convinced by the ending of the 3rd movement, it seemed a bit abrupt. It might be because of the recording, but I'm not entirely sure what you were trying to get across there. I think that the last chord needs to be a bit longer, as well as the piccolo note, neither really has time to assert itself. Other than that it's a very strong piece.

reupload after files went missing

I'm not as comfortable with Orchestral works, but I like this quite a bit (at least the MIDI form). Not bad at all, it seems very well written to me, at least. I do like some of the harmonies, especially as it gets speeds up. I do like particularly how it's "simple" music.