Now THIS will CERTAINLY get us composers RILED UP

http://www.filmtracks.com/comments/titles/...dex.cgi?read=48

This is a review for the Da Vinci Code soundtrack. I just felt like hurting this man.

Music has a presentation quality. This can be either Godly or demonic. Music is composed of melody, harmony, and rhythm. For music to be Godly there must be a proper balance between the melody, harmony, and rhythm. Music can cover many genres but there must be proper melody, harmony and rhythm. Much of today's film scores are imbalanced music that violates the melody, harmony, and rhythm of a song.

This one had me rolling on the floor.

Who is this guy? This has to be a sick joke. Hopefully, it is. No one in their right mind could agree wholeheartedly with the above.

Yeah, I totally agree with you. This man *censored for non-FFA approval*

A memorable response to the idiocy:

"Honestly, hardly ANYTHING in day to day life honors and glorifies God!!! And does God really NEED it to?? Is God an insecure omniscient, omnipresent being?? Does He really need us to spend every waking moment trying to glorify him?? No...He doesn't! As far as God is concerned, as long as someone believes in their heart and lives a good, moral life, then that's a pretty darn good thing!

And to be even MORE honest....some of the most moral and good people on this planet are people who ARE atheists. It most certainly DOES NOT make them bad people at all!! It all boils down to how you choose to live your life and how you choose to find your happiness. It's the little things, the simple things that can make people happy and film scores are included in that.

I would be willing to bet my own life that the hijackers that flew their planes into the World Trade Center were not thinking that it was God's will for them to do this BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE FILM SCORE MUSIC TO E.T.!!!!!"

For music to be Godly there must be a proper balance between the melody, harmony, and rhythm. Music can cover many genres but there must be proper melody, harmony and rhythm. Much of today's film scores are imbalanced music that violates the melody, harmony, and rhythm of a song.

I am pretty strict on my views of music, but I know at times seeming disorder in a work is needed, and I believe that can glorify God.

I just wonder what this guy would think of some of Bach's Organ works.

And to be even MORE honest....some of the most moral and good people on this planet are people who ARE atheists. It most certainly DOES NOT make them bad people at all!! It all boils down to how you choose to live your life and how you choose to find your happiness.

I suspect the Crusaders are hitting out at the film rather than the music. Nowhere does this critic postulate what comprises satanic music so one presumes he means anything post that renegade Monteverdi who broke all the ecclesiastical music rules of melodic and harmonic structure where, for instance, melody must rise to its highest point when heaven or God appeared in the text, etc. Monteverdi was clever enough to carry on writing ecclesiastical music, however, while keeping in with the powers.

I recently read a BBC article about the "evil tritone" formerly prohibited by the Church for being the work of the devil, laden with "sexual overtones". I SEARCHED through the first 16 harmonics but could find nothing sexual!!??? The reportage claimed that's why it was a favourite interval of Heavy-Metallists (which doesn't seem to be true). Such proclamations also imply that sexuality, invented by God, is evil... Shame for the furtherance of the human race! So beware, whenever you write an A-men based on V7-I - you're being evil!!! Is there a forum hair shirt?

I would laugh but the essence of the tirade afflicts people every day everywhere.

M

.

Marius - I agree some of the most moral and "good" people on the earth have been non-Christian. This is called human good and it is worth nothing. This is when people think that they can do something enough times that they can earn their way into Heaven. These people ARE going to Hell because they totally miss the point. Jesus did the work on the cross. Nothing else will satisfy the answer to the problem.

I recently read a BBC article about the "evil tritone" formerly prohibited by the Church for being the work of the devil, laden with "sexual overtones". I SEARCHED through the first 16 harmonics but could find nothing sexual!!??? The reportage claimed that's why it was a favourite interval of Heavy-Metallists (which doesn't seem to be true). Such proclamations also imply that sexuality, invented by God, is evil... Shame for the furtherance of the human race!

I disagree with that theory too.

Sorry to divert from the topic just this once but if you're interested, it's at

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4952646.stm

M

The inherently evil part of music would be the words.

I have heard music with no words that I am convinced was inspired by an evil spirit, Satan, and the evil of men's hearts.

Some Christians try to say Jesus is Ok with all forms of music if the words are good. Thats utter nonsense. They use that excuse to write (so called) Christian music in the form of death metal, etc. That is not in line with the nature of Christ therefore to be counted as dung and an unholy thing.

Can you honestly see Jesus growling into a microphone singing, "FATHER!!!"? No. Its a blasphamous thought and an offense to even think of.

Music by its very intent and makeup can be evil upon construction, even without words.

2.) Another point. For example:

My most favored Electric Guitar solo ever was the solo from Guns N Roses' November Rain.

Now is it wrong for me a Christian to listen to this if I get rid of the words, or to play it on my Electric Guitar?

Well, Personally I know that the construction of this work is well done and quite passionate, therefore I conclude the work is neutral, neither bad or good.

So for me to play it, it would not be evil, but if because of my playing it I cause another believer to go against his conscience and listen to the work with words, or buy the CD, or if by this I cause one to fall into secular music unpleasing to God. Then I sinned. As I pointed out before in Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8.

Roman 14:

20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall. 1 Corinthians 8.

The Guitar Solo tastes good to me, but that which is good to me can become evil if it causes my brother to fall, because of it. Therefore I say as Paul. "Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again (or to do anything else that will...), so that I will not cause him to fall."

We have to keep our brothers in mind. Christians do not live unto themselves.

Why is a certain type of singing blasphemous?

I think it's good that there's christian music in all types of genres, I think you're missing the point.

And why would Jesus be the one singing anyway?

Also, why would causing someone to listen to secular music be a sin?

I won't reply again, because I don't want to argue, but I'll read your answer.

1.) Why is a certain type of singing blasphemous?

I think it's good that there's christian music in all types of genres, I think you're missing the point.

And why would Jesus be the one singing anyway?

2.) Also, why would causing someone to listen to secular music be a sin?

People use such excuses "O we are saving souls". Should we act like the world to Save the world? God forbid. What a pitiful excuse people use, so that they can hold on to their carnal delights. When Paul said, "I have become all things unto all men, that by all means I may save some." (1 Cor 9) He didn't mean act like the world and pick up its trends. He was referring to the those with the Law (Jews) and those without the Law (Gentiles). Those who quote that verse in this discussion show ignorance of scripture.

2.) Paul counted things of the world as dung, as he said (Phill 3), and he says to us, "Imitate me, as I imitate Christ".

If the message and make up is not evil in the music, then I wouldnt get fanatical about it. If the words are bad, then I wouldn't try and justify it, that would be sin. Aso, as I pointed out in Scripture in my last post, if you cause another to go against his conscience in this matter of worldly things, you sin by listening.

I'm confused as to how a vocalist growling like a demon, as you put it, could be construed as somehow inherantly evil or immoral. Is that not an image created by the media more than anything else?

Granted, a considerable amount of death metal does have lyrics which Christians might object to. But the actual genre of Metal in general is about power, aggression and possibly anger. Now, anger and aggression aren't the most constructive of traits (in most cases) but I feel that the composers who write these pieces of music are entitled to portray it, the emotion being human and having existence in this world, whether right or wrong, positive or negative. And they generally do a good job of it, often composing the music rather well in fact. There's nothing like Metal to convey a sense of pure power so effectively, in my opinion.

Example - Take the track "Messiah" by Fear Factory. Here are the lyrics:

Messiah...

Forced down and forced out...

Forced down and forced out and

forced down and forced out...

Interpret those as you will, but I'm sure there are many interpretations which would indeed not lead to one forming the opinion that these lyrics were anti-Christian. The song itself is, like most death/thrash metal, very powerful; the subject matter is the Messiah and he has been "forced down and forced out". Perhaps one might interpret this as a response to the fact that he was oppressed and eventually crucified - people forced him down, both physically and in terms of attempting to silence his words, and they forced him out - they killed him. Perhaps the song is an angry response to these events. Or perhaps the song is about Christ coming again - it's very powerful, the second coming would surely be powerful. Meh, I dunno, you're probably gonna hate me for this post. :) But I hope you see my point - there are multiple interpretations of any genre or piece of music.

1.) I'm confused as to how a vocalist growling like a demon, as you put it, could be construed as somehow inherantly evil or immoral. Is that not an image created by the media more than anything else?

2.) But the actual genre of Metal in general is about power, aggression and possibly anger.

3.) Meh, I dunno, you're probably gonna hate me for this post. :) But I hope you see my point - there are multiple interpretations of any genre or piece of music.

2.) "For anger resides in the bosom of fools." Ecclesiastes 7:9

3.) No, I don't hate you for posting your ideas. I just disagree.

The Bible says to women, "I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting; in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, but that which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works."

If we should be careful in our dress, shouldn't we be careful in such things as music?

The world that rejects God will do what it wills, but Christians should not. There should be a distinct difference, as there was with Israel and other nations before Christ. When Christians adopt Secular music trends such as metal, you cannot tell them apart from the world. In such cases there is in fact a problem.

In the same way Christians should dress modest, not like the world (seductively, tattoos, peircings, etc...).

As God has commanded and said, "You are in the World, but be not of the world" again, "I have seperated you from the world (called you out of -- in deeds and appreance), be ye seperate".

Whoops, forgot about this thread. I meant to reply yesterday so here goes.

Accounts of demonization throughout history have showed that such growl and act aggressive.

Hmm, I think some clarification is required as to what exactly constitutes a "growl". There's the really hardcore stuff that literally sounds like a continuous, deep, indeciferable growl, like Napalm Death's vocals or that horrific-sounding Scandinavian group I've forgotten the name of...or there's the ones that are basically shouting. Fear Factory's vocals are primarily shouting. Just straight-up shouting. They also tend to alternate between melodic singing and shouting during their songs, which was one of the things that made them quite unique when they first started out. Whether you would consider a vocalist shouting into a mic as resembling a demon according to personal accounts, I don't know. But there's a distinction here, I feel, between the "classic" Death Metal vocalist techniques and the more modern Death Metal vocalist techniques, which are actually nearer to sub-genres like Thrash in many ways.

By the way, would you consider Death Metal music to merely represent demonization or reveal that the vocalist is in fact possessed?

I also feel in hindsight that the song I cited - Messiah by Fear Factory - is probably a lot closer to Thrash Metal than Death Metal in terms of genre. The main reason I brought it up was to make a link with Christianity. So perhaps the example I picked is totally irrelevant, unless you would consider slightly decorated shouting as demonic too, in which case you would presumably widen your disapproval of the Metal genre.

"For anger resides in the bosom of fools." Ecclesiastes 7:9

Everyone feels anger, at least from time to time. Therefore I assume this verse refers to a long-standing anger in which conscious choice is involved in order to retain it, like a grudge perhaps. I suppose the question in this case may be whether the person is choosing to remain angry, or merely wishes to express some anger in a short time period through an outlet such as music. Personally, I think it is a worthwhile exercise for any composer to express any emotion he/she feels. That's art, as far as I'm concerned.

If we should be careful in our dress, shouldn't we be careful in such things as music?

I think it is possible to both associate and dissociate things like dress with music, and we're sort of entering a really big area of discussion here. For example, is dress a mode of self-expression or an identification of the very self? Who knows, big area, huge amount of debate to be had, let's avoid for brevity's sake.

Still, it's been interesting to hear your perspective on this, Jeremy.

Wow, I'm pretty convinced you are a puritan, through and through.

What do you think of electric guitars? Wouldn't Jesus have gone with an acoustic? Electric guitars are loud and noisy. Their distortion is meaningless sound, and they are a very crude thing to play as instruments go. Whereas an acoustic is peaceful, soothing, beautiful, and quieter. Is it bad to play electric guitars?

1.) By the way, would you consider Death Metal music to merely represent demonization or reveal that the vocalist is in fact possessed?

2.) For example, is dress a mode of self-expression or an identification of the very self? Who knows, big area, huge amount of debate to be had, let's avoid for brevity's sake.

Growing/Screaming in this case we will call them sisters both not being fit for Christians.

1.) I wouldn't say the singers are possessed, but they are certainly inspired by the carnal nature of man and demons, and yes I believe men can be inspired in a distorted way by Satan.

2.) The way you dress definately shows alot about a person, if say they are dressing seductively or peircing themselves up and such. As the scripture reads what's in a man (the heart of man) comes out of a man, whether it be words, action, even dress.

1.) Wow, I'm pretty convinced you are a puritan, through and through.

2.) What do you think of electric guitars? Is it bad to play electric guitars?

2.) Actually, I own a left handed Les Paul guitar (being I am a leftie) and I even compose for Electric guitar for example here is one of my works. So, do I think they are bad? Absolutely not. The instrument is neither good or bad, but a man can shape neutral notes and make that which by nature is neither bad or good and make it an evil thing. As the scripture reads, "Inventors of evil things".

Electric Guitar

Jeremy

That guy's crazy. He wants tonal dominant music, yet he says that composers are unoriginal nowadays? Atonal music came about from desire of originality. Oh well, it was quite amusing.

Dissonance was actually banned in the early church, and they used the same argument; dissonance is inheritly evil. Using a minor key was prohibited, yet alone atonality. Must have been pretty boring.

lol

I'm sorry but I couldn't get myself to finish reading either of those articles.

I honestly couldn't be bothered to read it all ... this person definitely has too much time on their hands.

A.) However, no matter what it is I do not think that there should be any moral restriction put on the decision to listen to the music.

B.) Did you know that Ravel's Bolero is supposed to be symbolic of a women's orgasm? That is great classical music with a twisted hidden meaning. Still very enjoyable music that sounds to be very polite and very technically correct.

I won't force my personal convictions on others, but I hope if one is a Christian they will consider the matter in light of what I have said, but ultimately one has to go with what God says to them personally on matters.

Does God say to me, "No wine"? Then if I drink its sin to me.

Does God say to you, "A glass of wine a week is fine"? Then to you it is permissible.

It's true God convicts people differently, what might be sin to one may not be sin to another, but let's not use this as a freedom to hold onto those things of the world we know we shouldn't hold on to. (If indeed we are in any way)

Still I am convinced some music by its very makeup is inspired by the World, the Flesh and the Devil (that hellish trinity) and is in fact Evil.

B.) A man died. He then heard the music of Ravel's Bolero and with Joy said, "Ah, haha, I am in Heaven, God must have seen my good deeds", But after an hour of Bolero repeating over and over and over he began to become troubled and cried, "No, this is Hell!"

Now you have my view of Ravel's Bolero. It drives me nuts, being its horribly repetitive. :ninja:

Jeremy

I'll be brief.

First off, the only reason why we consider "growling" to be evil is because society has taught us that. It's just a sound that people consider to be evil. My guess is that it has to do with some ancestral memories we have when we had to fend off timberwolves or something.

Secondly, I can't see how "distortion guitar" can be any more offensive than sonorous and earth-shaking church organ pedals.

In other words, it's just a sound.

Secondly, basically the only argument you have in saying that the music is ungodly, is that it's ungodly because you don't like it.

Personally, all that music does is expressed oneself. It doesn't cause people to do crazy acts. For example, it wasn't Marilyn Manson that sparked the Columbine Massacre. Those kids were, pardon my bluntness, stupid to begin with.

Was "The Rite of Spring" Satanic?

Good grief. What happened to treating everybody with dignity, and respecting other people's tastes? I mean, by accussing other peoples music as EVIL because YOU don't like it, IS evil, as far as Christ or Buddha or Moses goes.

"There is one truth, though the sages speak of it differently."

The thing is, the only reason YOU feel that this music is evil and satanic, is because you don't like it, and, therefore, because YOU are Godly, than God must have the same tastes of music as you.

Oh, and finally, that quote about dressing modestly from the bible. Notice how it's not so specific? What does it mean, to dress modestly? In my opinion, all that dressing modestly means is dress respectfully, for yourself and others. I don't really care if you dress like a skank or puritan, just as long as you feel modest in your soul to whomever you should.

Why must there be such black and white?

:mellow:

1.) The thing is, the only reason YOU feel that this music is evil and satanic, is because you don't like it, and, therefore, because YOU are Godly, than God must have the same tastes of music as you.

2.) What happened to treating everybody with dignity, and respecting other people's tastes? I mean, by accussing other peoples music as EVIL because YOU don't like it, IS evil, as far as Christ or Buddha or Moses goes.

This music comes from the old man (that carnal nature), but there is music that comes from God and is good. God made man and even the good thoughts of man flow from God, being He has made all and is the source of all that is good.

Such works as of Bach and other great masters I believe came straight from God and the intention of these composers were good. Its when a man sets his mind on the things of the carnal nature that we get this evil music, again as the scripture reads, "Inventors of evil things" and again, "To be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Again, "The carnally minded set their minds on the things of the flesh".

It's not that my carnal nature didn't or wouldn't like that form of music. Its about putting away the old man and all things becoming new from a better disposition. (as the scripture reads)

The world will listen to and do what it will, for it is carnally minded, but there is no place for a Christian in Carnality. He can partake of such, but he is sure to be misrable until he repents. (and thank God for that!)

2.) You say that Moses and Jesus taught to respect other peoples tastes? Show me where the Bible taught to respect the taste of another when its carnal. I am to love my enemy (and speak the truth in love), but I don't have to call his evil ways good. In fact we are called to shed light upon the darkness and expose evil for what it is.

Why do you think people killed Jesus? Because He called them, "A Brood of Vipers, Hypocrites, Adulterers, Children of the Devil"? Truth has a way of irritating people, because it calls their carnal delights evil.

Jeremy

I honestly couldn't be bothered to read it all ... this person definitely has too much time on their hands.

I agree some of the most moral and "good" people on the earth have been non-Christian. This is called human good and it is worth nothing. This is when people think that they can do something enough times that they can earn their way into Heaven. These people ARE going to Hell because they totally miss the point. Jesus did the work on the cross. Nothing else will satisfy the answer to the problem.

Your logic is a bit flawed here. Many non-Christians do not even believe in a 'heaven' so I don't see how they are 'missing the point' at all. They are good and moral because most people have an inherent sense of right & wrong, religious or otherwise, and this is what's required for a decent standard of living in our society.

Most perplexing - how can any sound, however organised (or not) be inherently good or evil? It HAS to be in the ear of the beholder.

Many non-Christians are moral and are very good. Many other non-Christians are terrible awful immoral people. Many Christians are amazing great respectful humans. Many other Christians are terrible awful despicable creatures. Morality is not the basis of Christianity; it is only an outcome.[/b]

True.

Your logic is a bit flawed here. Many non-Christians do not even believe in a 'heaven' so I don't see how they are 'missing the point' at all. They are good and moral because most people have an inherent sense of right & wrong, religious or otherwise, and this is what's required for a decent standard of living in our society.

God (the only God and true God, the Father of Jesus Christ) has said that our good deeds are as filthy rags and not good enough to save us.

As we read in the Old Testament the sacrifice had to be a "Lamb without Blemish", nothing else was acceptable. Now, we are with blemish even if we try our best to live rightly. (For all have sinned and fallen short) Jesus Christ was the only sinless Man (without Blemish) therefore His sacrifice alone was acceptable to God. What He did on the cross was not for Himself but for all who would recieve His sacrifice as payment for their debt of sin and by that become righteous. That is Love.

We don't get to heaven by our good deeds, we get there by Christ's Death on our behalf. As the Scripture reads, "By Grace through Faith you have been saved, not of yourselves. It is a Gift of God. That no flesh can boast."

Again it reads, "That no flesh shall glory in His presence." How ugly upon death it would be to see men boasting how they made it to heaven because they were good (better than other sinners), no, those there got there by God's Love and Grace, they alone couldn't satisfy God's requirement. There will be no boasting, only grateful sinners made holy by recieving the rightouesness of Christ on their behalf, the gift of God.

A man does well when he finally sees he is totally depraved and evil and then turns to God, knowing his good deeds are not good enough, the Righteousness of Christ then being imputed to him.

I don't care how good you think you are, if you reject God's way to heaven (Christ's death alone) you are utterly prideful, as to think you are wiser or more holy than God. The way to hell is paved with your so called good.

"The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"