Octatonic Fugue

This is a Fugue in Octatonic mode. I am curious what you think. There are possible some enharmonic spelling issues (help is appreciated, because I stared too much at the score)Since I have little to no experience writing modal music I would appreciate some feedback on the harmonies. It has a kind of tonal center around e minor.As for now it is scored for piano, but it is probable it will become part of a jazz suite for alto sax and piano.

Octatonic Fugue

I really like this. I think you did a very good job on this actually. I can tell you put a lot of thought into the counterpoint as well as the melody - which is a double plus. Good job!

I liked this piece a lot, as well. There were some really nice accented moments that kept my attention and I could really follow the piece more as a result.

You have a few collisions in the score that you'll probably need to edit, I saw these on page 2 of the score. Also, I hope you'll reconsider the octaves at the very end. I didn't like that.

That's all I really have in the way of comments, though. Good job.

- AA :)

Thank you both for the good words. I will take a look at thos collisions. The octaves and the fff are maybe a bit to much.

I am considering to make this part of a suite for sax and piano (maybe that wil solve the collisions ;) )

Someone any thoughts on how I used the octatonic scale. Since it was the first time I feel a bit uncertain about this. I feel like I hovered above some tonal centres (E G Bb and C#, almost always minor) and that is kind of cheating ;)

Any feedback is welcome!

I like this too! It sounds cool, and it looks like a devil to play on the score, heh.

This is an interesting piece: it does sounds sort of like a dark jazz of some sort, so it will probably be a very good idea to go ahead and make this a jazz suite with the sax and all (gotta love that sax, man!), as you've already suggested to yourself. I look forward to seeing that!

Thanks for sharing! :)

Thank you both for the good words. I will take a look at thos collisions. The octaves and the fff are maybe a bit to much.

I am considering to make this part of a suite for sax and piano (maybe that wil solve the collisions ;) )

Someone any thoughts on how I used the octatonic scale. Since it was the first time I feel a bit uncertain about this. I feel like I hovered above some tonal centres (E G Bb and C#, almost always minor) and that is kind of cheating ;)

Any feedback is welcome!

The thing you can do with really any sonority created by a harmony or, in this case the octatonic scale, is create a tonality for it. Just like in tonal music you have "scale degrees" where you know some notes will relate to other notes, you can do the same thing with the Octatonic Scale without relying on "functionality." If you find a particular harmony evocative of the Octatonic's first pitch, use that harmony as a referential point.

Then, from a contrapuntal perspective, you can build scales off of different scale degrees to evoke different harmonic areas that then relate to the referential point and move around it. You can create expectations and delay them for greater effect, for example. The interesting thing about the Octatonic scale is that it's symmetric, something that's not common among all scales. If you wanted to, say, avoid diatonicism (which is perfectly understandable with this work), there are other symmetric scales that would blend well here.

In fact, your entire work could be based not on simply the Octatonic Scale but also the Whole Tone scale and fully Diminished Arpeggios that would complement the symmetry of the pitch relationships. Then you have more ways to create variety within the harmonic structure of your sonority and give you more options to work with in composing this work or the next. Additionally, you can create your own synthetic scale with the idea of symmetry in mind and use that to further develop the sonority.

You might as well just write another piece with these things in mind, because other than the end, I think what you have is interesting enough for me.

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For fun I just orchestrated a Whole Tone scale in a harmonic stack moving to an Octatonic scale orchestrated in a harmonic stack. The progression is better than sex! :)

The thing you can do with really any sonority created by a harmony or, in this case the octatonic scale, is create a tonality for it. Just like in tonal music you have "scale degrees" where you know some notes will relate to other notes, you can do the same thing with the Octatonic Scale without relying on "functionality." If you find a particular harmony evocative of the Octatonic's first pitch, use that harmony as a referential point.

I did this. see for example ms21 (kind of G7). I was looking for a dominant-function and found that particular chord could resolve to multiple degrees. Searching for pleasant resolving chord I choose the III (octatonic) as a kind of dominant (see pedal point in G minor, resolving to E)

And in ms27 the alto tenor and bass moving parallel were also result of some toying the the scale.

Good, then you're on the right track. I would suggest investigating complimentary sound sets to what you're using now. Look into the sets created by the whole tone scale and the octatonic scale. Find their complimentary sets to see what else you can come up with in terms of a scale, a harmony, or something. I wouldn't just stop with function, as that's only a fraction of what music is really all about.

- AA :)

Very nice, and I think an arrangement for sax and piano would be perfect! The only thing that seems out of place to me is the ending since it stops so abruptly.

Good, then you're on the right track. I would suggest investigating complimentary sound sets to what you're using now. Look into the sets created by the whole tone scale and the octatonic scale. Find their complimentary sets to see what else you can come up with in terms of a scale, a harmony, or something. I wouldn't just stop with function, as that's only a fraction of what music is really all about.

- AA :)

I could try that. But first I wanted to use only the octatonic scale. As I want to discover if I could use it on its own. First things first ;)

I feel like mixing diatonic and octatonic, or octatonic and wholetone, or whatever kind of combination is just a elaborated form of chromatism.

As for your last remark. There is more than harmony, agreed. But it is the topic that is most interesting to me. (see for example my elegies. The have dull textures, since I was not writing textures, but more focusing on harmony)

I think it needs some more space between the notes, the harmonies are too close for my taste. It wasn't easy I imagine, writing a fugue on the octatonic, so good job there!

What I'd try is building a sequence of chords on the octatonic and going from there (like you could do Cmin, Amaj, F#b5)

Haha, nice that you bump this. This was a previous version of an idea. A newer extended version is the fourth movement of my saxophone sonata.

http://www.youngcomposers.com/pg/Music/jrcramer/composition?entry=37904

Are those midis? If you open them up in FL studio (and add some reverb effects maybe) then render them to wav or mp3 they'll sound A LOT better.

Oh and re-uploaded my messiaen mode 3 canon, should work now, if you'd be so kind to take a listen.

the piece is very interesting, I'like the ottatonic structure... but more contrast would...

building of the central episodes with other type of harmony

File not found! D:

I could re-upload this, but there is a final version for sax and piano in the chamber section...

Ooo ta mate, i'll check it out.