A toccata...?

This piece is part of an effort I'm beginning to write something every day, no matter how bad or cliché. I'm not sure what to call it, and it's not finished, but much of the material is there, I just need to play around with it some more and I'll have a nice, fashionably dissonant piece on my hands!

What you hear took about a half hour to write. In the beginning, the bass uses a figure with augmented 4ths, while the right hand hovers around a given note in a fast rhythm. The melody tends to stick to a aeolian mode with a lowered 2nd (or perhaps locrian with a raised 5th?). No real challenges so far, it just sort of came to me. Hopefully there won't be a whole lot of writer's block here!

Input?

i thought it was very nice. Good use of the dissonace. I don't really know what a Toccata so i can't help you there.

One thing that might make this piece better is maybe speed up in a section or slow down. Your rythms almost stay the same throughout the main section of the song. You use a lot of fourths, was that intentional, or did that just come out.... because it sounds very good the way you wrote it (just curious.)

Ok, so that is my little review... Good job. Can't wait to hear the finished version.

A toccata is a work, generally for piano but sometimes for other instruments, that requires a lot of dexterity on the part of the performer.

I didn't want to slow it down at all, but it needed some contrast, so I brought down the dynamic. The fourths were sort of intentional, but not much of this was intentional, it just kinda happened!

Thanks for your compliments; here is the complete version. I may make some changes, and I would very much like to get Nick, Nico, or somebody else who's pretty musically adept to critique this. There are probably a lot of places that could become even stronger.

toccata.MID

Well, it's certainly very fitting of the name "Toccata" . I would know, I've been working on one by Aram Khachaturian for a while now....

I thought this was very well written, and I loved the dissonances and rythms used. That modulation in measure 22 helped move the piece along and keep its, er, excitedness :unsure: (along with the other modulations in the piece). A nicer middle section or some kind of change in the mood and color of the piece would add to this piece, I think. Perhaps a bit of change in rythm, as well. I know toccatas are generally supposed to be pretty repetive and kind of mechanical (from what I've played in Khachaturian's piece, at least) but a bit more variety might help. Great piece, though :D. I give it the Verdi Seal of Approval! If that was...er...a real thing...and actually meant something :D.

Hey wow really nice.

i think this piece is also good for a pianist to make tempo changes and it has a wide potential to variate on playing. Really very nice, good work, especially the first part the left hand!

Esim

Toccatas are known for their repetitive nature, of course. The Khachaturian Toccata is a prime example, the Widor Toccata from Organ Symphony no. 5 as well, and to a lesser extent the Prokofiev Toccata.

Ok! 5 seconds into the piece...and I have something to say. (by the way, thanks for the compliment...!) A problem in composing that I have found is the desire to repeat a figure, an ostinato. What I never realized is no matter how interesting the ostinato, it can get boring A. if you don't do anything with it to variate it and B. (your problem) if it's only a measure long!! While in some cases, a measure long or even less ostinato can work, but this is a rhythmically driven piece where things are being repeated all the time, so it's best to extend your phrases. Right now you have a one-bar phrase in the left hand, and it sounds like it stays that way. I'd suggest extended that idea so instead of 'one bar, one bar', constantly repeating, you have a 3 or 4 bar phrase. (3 would be especially interesting, since it is an unusual number in the contexts of form) ...I have noticed that there are some note changes, making it a two bar phrase, but the piece is in 4/4 with a pretty regular phrase pattern, so I'm going to stress the use of an irregular pattern, maybe down the line a bit in the piece. Look at some high-energy Bernstein.

Ok. When the right hand stops flailing about and plays lower, those semi-dissonant chords,(around :11), the sound is really really thinned out. It sounds like, whoa? What happened? And it's suddenly less interesting. Usually when you drastically change something, it gets more interesting, if it wasn't already at its peak. But to change like this? It's sort of lacking something. I'd suggest add a note or two into the chords the right hand plays, then roll the chords, to make the motion constant, rather than 'lump!'...'lump!'... on a two note chord.

Same with your left hand, around :28. Then again after the pauses.

Ilike the new harmonic change. But--your ostinatos keep getting shorter!!! No! You must break this awful habit of 'one bar', 'one bar', all over the place-- extend, variate, offset things. I think right at :53, would be a GREAT opportunity to be nice to Nick and make the bass in a waltz pattern, regular 8th notes, offsetting it a bit with the right hand, then extending it as the pitches change, into a 5 pattern, then 7!! Much more interesting than 'oompahoompahoompah'! Also, your left hand tends to stay in the same area. although this will make it easier to play, you're forgetting about the performer. They want to show off. Why else would they play infront of a thousand people? To play Chopsticks? Maybe if it were arranged by sorabji..! So try moving the left hand around, jump up an octave, a tritone, etc.

Your repeated notes like at 2:18 are fine, because the pianist can use different fingers for each note. but at 2:27, you make it incredibly difficult, just by adding another note. A person's hand doesn't quite like moving that fast, witht he same fingers. You might want to have the bottom note held with the thumb, then keep the fast repeated notes with the other fingers, to avoid awkward and difficult playing.

Over all, a couple of things: All that I've previously commented on; The fact that it is so short, you must variate more! Don't just do the same thing over and over again, change it up. Realize how your left hand is always the pulse and the right hand is always the melody! Add some wacky time signatures(7/8!!!), change the key, the harmonies, go atonal, do something!!! ; Also, keep writing!

Good work! I really like the piece.

:) interesting and effective piece! i hardly can add anything to what the experts Nico and Nickthoven have said, and i feel they have given useful hints. anyway for me the piece works very well and i guess that your avatar influenced a lot in the creation :D

keep composing!

Nick - yes, I agree with pretty much all of what you said. I'm still learning, and I myself was a little irritated that it seemed I was copying and pasting a lot of the time. Trouble is, I'm terrible at editing. Terrible terrible terrible.

There were also spots when I was trying to make it a little easier on the fingers... though as a pianist I see you're right about that two-note repetition. I sure wouldn't want to play it.

This style is new for me, but I'm neutral on this one. There are some parts I like, some others I don't. I'm a passive man, so the dissonance surprised me.

The "Toccatta" is well used in the name of this composition. Feels like an uneasy killer's shadow.

However, as I've said, I don't like dissonances, but I think I must get "up-to-date".

Well done!

Hey all! Yes, this thread gets revived, because I did some editing on this piece. Nothing major. Nick, I'm sorry, but a lot of the things you critiqued I liked too much to change. The one-measure ostinato at the beginning is actually two measures long, as you pointed out; the focus is heavily on the melody at that point, and I like the interplay between the melodic ideas in the two hands. There's a lot of left-hand throbbing repetition in this piece on purpose - the depiction is somewhat like a cavalry battle between Turks with scimitars (though I am hesitant to give imagery for the piece).

As for the two-note chords, I tried adding a third note and it just didn't sound right anywhere. I really don't want to roll them, either, it sounds out of place. I understand, too, that a toccata is to exhibit the talent of the performer. The main difficulty in the left hand (and I speak from having tried to play this) is the odd slur-staccato pattern. While I added some more motion, it's hard enough to sustain that offbeat feel in so quick a tempo.

The intent was really for the right hand to be the melody (which does change registers) and the left to be the rhythmic pulse. It's short on purpose. I eliminated the machine-gun two-note things near the end.

Maybe if it were arranged by sorabji

OK. All that to say what I DIDN'T change... what I did change should be a little obvious for those who've heard it before. To add interest to the ostinatos you thought were way too short and uninteresting - a complaint I agree with and was troubled by - I have moved a lot of the notes in the left hand, from the time the accents started hitting every beat on. A lot of that makes it more dissonant and changes things up. Sorry about the pulse being so constant, though, I like it too much!

You're just going to have to satisfy yourself, Nick, with the fact that I don't compose the same way you do! ;) I'm not all about 7/8 meter, for one thing, I love 4/4 and 3/4. There's a reason those meters are the most common. I'm quite happy with this piece, and so was my composition teacher. I really appreciate the honest feedback, though. Don't get me wrong. I'd love to receive such in-depth criticism of all my works.

I've attached a PDF for those who'd like to see the notes, and you can go here for an MP3.

Toccata.pdf

I LOVED the rhythm in this piece. I can't add anything to what anyone else has already said, but... I don't think that it is as deep as some say it is. IMO an "uneasy killer's shadow" is not what this piece is about, it's too playful.

I think the scene described is almost from a cartoon where the main character is runnig from something, only funny things keep happening.

Oh, well...

The Lord of the Onion Rings

Dude, that piece was WICKED cool.

nice one! you'll need a good pianist to pull that one off, esp with those fast repeated notes! I liked the piece a lot :(

Hey thanks, guys!