Random Question

Ok - this might be a bit strange a question, but that's just my curiosity ;)

What's the earliest (historically) any of you have seen ff in a score?

Same question, but for fff.

I'm just wondering when these came into common usage. Or even any usage.

:)

romantic... 19 century, fff fotissimo posibile .

mant composers in 20 century use ffff or more ;) ppppp like Ligeti

yeah, the more modern the piece, the wilder contrast in dynamics (p-f, pppp-ffff).

I don't use anything over ff in my pieces, and rarely pp. I think it's silly.

So does anyone else have any more info?

I've seen ff and pp in the 1770s

I know Bach used the word pianissimo, but not pp.

Tchaikovsky issued a note with 'pppppp' for the first bassoonist in his sixth symphony. A common trend is to play that note on a bass clarinet, as the bass clarinet can play quieter at that pitch more easily than the bassoon. However, I think Tchaikovsky was clever enough to know that the sound he wanted was the sound of the bassoon.

A similar problem is at the end of one of his symphony's movements is a bottom 'b' for both bassoons in unison, but quiet. 'pp', if I remember rightly. Far too many conductors ask only one bassoonist to play this note, as it is quieter. Again, I think that Tchaikovsky was clever enough to realise the effect he wanted - which was a low rasping note of the two bassoons.

Anyway, 'pppppp' is the quietest I've found. Shostakovich uses 'fffff' somewhere, I think. Seventh symphony? I'll have to dig out my scores and do some research on this!

I myself have written pieces with fortes going across the entire song front to end. But not practically, sadly.

Another question, when you see more ffs or pps and whatnot, do you base the volume of one instruments ff of of what what other instruments have on their scores? Or is it really just for embellishing?

I could swear I've seen ff in Mozart, but I'm not sure at the moment. I'll have to look that up.

I just checked my scores, and I see fff and pp in Beethoven's 8th.

I never use anything beyond ff and pp, except for fine-tuning Finale's playback for recording; for example, a slow first-violins fade from pp to nothing.

I do use pp rather frequently, though. I'm a fan of widely contrasting dynamics, but I believe pianissimo is enough to tell a performer to play at the low end of the dynamic continuum. While I use pianissimo often for coloristic effects and sensitive passages, I almost always save fortissimo one or two climaxes in a piece. No sense getting the players to the loudest dynamic until then, right? Forte usually suffices.

I use ppp to fff... ocassionally i will write pppp or ffff to indicate as quiet as possible or as loud as possible. And of course 'niente' for clarinets.

There is definitely ff and pp in Mozart.

I've seen it as early as the piano sonata in A minor (1777)

And possibly ff even earlier than that.

Ok - I found pp in Mozart's Symphony #25 (1773)

Aha, I never use anything quieter than p. And I go up to fff occasionally.

I use pp as my lowest and ff as my loudest but I save ppp and fff for those "special moments".

Ok, so I found some examples of pp in 1760s Haydn and CPE Bach, I think. Possibly ff also. Now what about fff?

Also. Same question, but for pedal markings.

Edit: also found pp in Mozart's first symphony. (circa 1764 I think)

Verdi uses ppppp in an aria in "Otello"

I think it's one of Iago's parts.