Classical Period Listening/Analysis (1750-1830)

This is the listening and analysis group for the Classical Period. We'll be concentrating on music made around the years 1750 to 1830, although other works written outside of these years are acceptable, as long as they are still considered classical works.

Anyone can join this group, but be warned that these groups are for serious study, so some theory knowledge is required.

We're going to keep the group size to ten for organization and time's sake:

1. MariusChamberlin

2. icelizarrd

3. malbert.macl

4. twilexia

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

Other than being the OP, I am not the "leader" of this group or anything of that nature. Everyone has equal say.

Once we have all 10 members we'll decide on a period of time we want to focus on a single work for. Then after that we'll nominate some pieces! :D But first things first. First nine are first served. After that we'll start with deciding how much time we're going to spend listening and discussing a single piece.

I would advise against doing time periods and rather focus on country/region traditions from X or Y composers specifically. You learn a lot more from analyzing, say, Mozart if you understand Händel and CPE Bach, like you understand JS Bach a lot better if you understand Buxtehude and Froberger.

Do one genealogy for a single composer, otherwise you could end up losing focus on many key aspects.

Also, of course, what an actual analysis means is that you need to talk a lot about history and in the end if you cover the same ground in genealogy you can make it a lot easier to read than jumping around. Hell, understanding "classical" as a music term requires good knowledge of baroque tendencies as well as all sorts of other things, you can't just jump in analyzing Haydn and call it a day.

Just sayin'.

Oh, this should go somewhere else probably as this seems more like a community thing than a discussion.

No SSC, your comment definitely belongs here.

Here is how I would do Mozart and say his Symphonic development - start with Mannheim composers, then JS Bach and CPE Bach. As you progress study the Hadyn symphonies for their influence upon Mozart (the Hadyn symphonies numbering from the 30's to 70's). The Hadyn may not be as strong an influence BUT his middle smyphonies may have offered Mozart a model of how to build from CPE Bach and the Mannheim school.

So lets just study all of musical history then... Once we're 80, we'll be up to Stravinsky.

So lets just study all of musical history then... Once we're 80, we'll be up to Stravinsky.

I trust people to be faster than you, though.

I trust people to be faster than you, though.

Touche. Welp. Lets get to it then.

Shall we start with Biber?

I would enjoy being a part of this, whther it is regional or era-based. Baroque exists in different regions though, remember.....

I would advise against doing time periods and rather focus on country/region traditions from X or Y composers specifically. You learn a lot more from analyzing, say, Mozart if you understand Händel and CPE Bach, like you understand JS Bach a lot better if you understand Buxtehude and Froberger.

Do one genealogy for a single composer, otherwise you could end up losing focus on many key aspects.

Also, of course, what an actual analysis means is that you need to talk a lot about history and in the end if you cover the same ground in genealogy you can make it a lot easier to read than jumping around. Hell, understanding "classical" as a music term requires good knowledge of baroque tendencies as well as all sorts of other things, you can't just jump in analyzing Haydn and call it a day.

Just sayin'.

Oh, this should go somewhere else probably as this seems more like a community thing than a discussion.

Well how do you suggest we proceed? Obviously we can't cover EVERYTHING starting from Baroque and moving on. I was thinking we'd be a little more brief than that. Maybe cover some general background, focus on the actual theory of the piece rather than where that theory came from. Touch on it yes, extensively research it maybe not so much.

Also, I don't think the regions would work as well. Music made in Germany in 1750 is a WHOLE lot different than music made in Germany in 2000-2011. Also the X or Y composers thing is almost the same as time period is it not? Composers are usually grouped by time period (Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven)? I just thought the time period thing would make it easier. Also I figured that this group would be specifically for classical music. Other people could create other groups for other genres and what not.

Also, that's why I wanted to pick a set duration to analyze a piece. It gives us time to get some background, as well as the listening.

You could start with Mozart, as others here have suggested. Some good influences on him were: Mannheim School (obviously), the Sturm und Drang movement, CPE Bach, Michael Haydn (much influence here), Haydn, and of course Leopold Mozart. That's just a starting point though. There's also a TON of influence from Handel and JS Bach, Clementi, etc. You could spend a lifetime here.

Dear lord, i don't even know if I'm qualified to be in this discussion, as my knowledge of music theory is rather limited. I do understand all the scales and counterpoint and dynamics and techniques, but for some of the more advanced ones, I'm not too familiar with. Still, I'd be happy to participate, since usually when I see a piece of sheet music, I immediately have have a million reactions left and right, even if they might not be said in technically-acceptable jargon.

How about looking at the opening movement of the unfinished suite from mozart in C major, KV399? Or the Rondo in A minor KV511?

Things to discuss for example would be: How would've the rest of the suite movements be composed? What's the major difference between a baroque suite and Mozart's weird style copy? Why wasn't the A minor rondo integrated into a Sonata and is instead stand-alone? Has this to do with the fact last movements were not supposed to be nearly as complex as this rondo (applies to the standalone D major rondo as well.) What are elements that show up in both these pieces that signal foresight into the development of harmony for the later 19th century? What elements are very different from the typical aesthetic from Mozart or go against the idea of balance or simplification?

A single piece is quite enough if you want to REALLY go indepth.

(I would totally do the Rondo, it's such a great piece and very, very, crazy.)

OH yeah that Rondo! The part where the writing has moments of schumann/brahms like voicings and the odd harmonic turns (yet always getting back to late 18th century common practice)

I'm interested in this endeavor! The A minor Rondo sounds like a good choice, too.

It's perhaps not looking like there will be 10 people interested in this, though...? Might have to settle for a smaller group.

To above, less than ten is fine with me. I just think ten is a maximum, not a requirement.

Well if everyone wants to do this, let's do this.

So how long do you guys want to focus on a particular piece? Should we do this as it comes? Or set a predetermined period for each piece? Personally I think we should do it as it comes, so that we can adjust slightly for longer or shorter pieces. But it's up to all of us.

Dear lord, i don't even know if I'm qualified to be in this discussion, as my knowledge of music theory is rather limited. I do understand all the scales and counterpoint and dynamics and techniques, but for some of the more advanced ones, I'm not too familiar with. Still, I'd be happy to participate, since usually when I see a piece of sheet music, I immediately have have a million reactions left and right, even if they might not be said in technically-acceptable jargon.

Don't worry. I feel like I can't compete with some of these other guys in terms of knowledge, but I'm sure we'll both give it our all, and learn more as we go. I just meant that this is probably not the place for someone who has next to nothing in musical knowledge.

Also, I updated the list of members. I didn't put everyone's name, as not everyone explicitly said they wanted to do this. If you want to join, please make it known and I'll add you to the list.

As for the piece, it seems everyone really wants to do this rondo. I'm all for it. If anyone else doesn't object, can we start with that one?

Edit: Sorry for double post.

I say we analyze Mozart's "Musical Joke". And I'm serious, I'd like to do something like that. I have a score... or youtube does, actually.. :P

This era musical point of view, I think it extremely interesting. Indeed, when we stepped out quietly in the Renaissance, the Baroque music era begins. The main characteristic of baroque music in the "harpsichord playing 'what time is Motzart also like to use, although they have so called" Piano-forte ". By all accounts, the damage to Impressionism itself almost 40 years after 1830 it really began, because the 1820-30-ies were already present. Schubert, Rossini, Chopin, Liszt Ferenc Schumman and later also had to create something at that time that the we all have a part of 21st century life vált.A 18th century. Motzart hegdűket and Vivaldi is typically used, because at this age was in the Vivaldi "cult of the violin" and each of his works written for violin, then this is Motzart grew up.