Top 50 most significant art music composers of the 2nd millennium?

So I threw this list together in a couple days. Due to my unfamiliarity with many of the composers on it, it's probably royally screwed up, and is in no way meant to be final, absolute truth. I'm mainly just curious to see what y'all would/wouldn't change about it. So, without further ado...

50. Gunnar Berg

49. Claudio Monteverdi

48. Gustav Holst

47. Francesco Landini

46. Anton Dvorak

45. Milton Babbitt

44. Samuel Barber

43. Perotin

42. Arcangelo Corelli

41. Johann Fux

40. Maurice Ravel

39. Phillip Glass

38. Charles Ives

37. Guillaume de Machaut

36. George Gershwin

35. Leonard Bernstein

34. Henry Cowell

33. Johann Pachelbel

32. Jean Sibelius

31. Domenico Scarlatti

30. Georges Bizet

29. Giacomo Puccini

28. Georg Philipp Telemann

27. Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina

26. Edvard Grieg

25. Richard Strauss

24. Sergei Prokofiev

23. Felix Mendelssohn

22. Franz Schubert

21. Gustav Mahler

20. Sergei Rachmaninoff

19. Bela Bartok

18. Robert Schumann

17. Joseph Haydn

16. John Cage

15. Antonio Vivaldi

14. Frederic Chopin

13. Aaron Copland

12. Franz Liszt

11. Hector Berlioz

10. Igor Stravinsky

9. Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky

8. Richard Wagner

7. Arnold Schoenberg

6. George Frideric Handel

5. Claude Debussy

4. Johannes Brahms

3. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

2. Johann Sebastian Bach

1. Ludwig van Beethoven

My grounds were mostly the quality & quantity of their music, how well known they are, and their influence on other composers. Though, as I said, I'm unfamiliar with many of these composers. My main source of names was my music history textbook (or "resource guide" if you want to be technical, as it's not really a full blown textbook) so I have at least a very basic familiarity with everyone on the list. In a situation where I was totally unable to decide how to rank two or more composers, I would resort to the cop-out method of comparing the lengths of their wikipedia pages :P. There are probably several significant composers (like Shostakovitch) who I forgot.

You left Shostakovich out, who is probably the most important composer from the USSR after Shostakovich himself.

What?

Nice list. Pretty good. Not much more to say about it I'm afraid.

Any list of "DA BEST COMPOHSARS" is going to be 1. needlessly controversial and 2. dumb. Just for fun, it's nice.

50. Graham Cohen

49. Claudio Monteverdi

48. Gustav Holst

47. Francesco Landini

46. Anton Dvorak

45. Milton Babbitt

44. Samuel Barber

43. Perotin

42. Arcangelo Corelli

41. Johann Fux

40. Maurice Ravel

39. Phillip Glass

38. Charles Ives

37. Guillaume de Machaut

36. George Gershwin

35. Leonard Bernstein

34. Henry Cowell

33. Johann Pachelbel

32. Jean Sibelius

31. Domenico Scarlatti

30. Georges Bizet

29. Giacomo Puccini

28. Georg Philipp Telemann

27. Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina

26. Edvard Grieg

25. Richard Strauss

24. Sergei Prokofiev

23. Felix Mendelssohn

22. Franz Schubert

21. Gustav Mahler

20. Sergei Rachmaninoff

19. Bela Bartok

18. Robert Schumann

17. Joseph Haydn

16. John Cage

15. Antonio Vivaldi

14. Frederic Chopin

13. Aaron Copland

12. Franz Liszt

11. Hector Berlioz

10. Igor Stravinsky

9. Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky

8. Richard Wagner

7. Arnold Schoenberg

6. George Frideric Handel

5. Claude Debussy

4. Johannes Brahms

3. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

2. Johann Sebastian Bach

1. Ludwig van Beethoven

LOL just kidding ;)

But I do agree on most of these, though there are some who are left out.

1. Every composer from 1000 AD to 2011 AD

2. Every composer before 1000 AD

1. Every composer from 1000 AD to 2011 AD

2. Every composer before 1000 AD

Hence the words "2nd millennium" in the thread title :P

Though now that I think of it, I realize I neglected to put the word "western" in the thread title.

I was making a point.

I don't get it. :dunno:

Here would be my List

1. Pope Gregory and those who codified Gregoirian Chant +

Perotin

2. Hildegard de Bingen

3. John Dunstable

4. Guilliame de Machaut

5. Dufay

6 Desprez

7 Cipriani de Rore

8 Peri

9 Monteverdi

10 Purcell

11 Frescobaldi

12 Buxtehude

13 Vivaldi (again not crazy about much of his music but he was a huge influence)

14 Bach Family

15 Hadyn

16 Beethoven

17 Schubert

18 Chopin

19 Wagner (though I hate his music his influence was huge)

20 Schoenberg

21 Babbit

22 Ligeti or Scelsi

23 Cage

24 Ellington

I did not add anymore because these are the composers whom I feel have had the MOST impact on Western music. I still think there may be too many composers on there ( if I had a choice I'd checkj Beethoven and leave Hadyn - without Hadyn, you would not have had a context for Beethoven to expand tyhe idea of motivic development and some of his harmonic ideas, Mozart is ommitted because he was a consolidator of Hadyn, Bach, the style gallant and sturm and drang traditions which other composers tried to do but with very little success; de Rore too could be left off though tough call as his counterpoint led to some very innovative harmonic progressions which Gesualdo would exploit to a much greater degree; finally if it were not for Babbit's work in electronics and extension of Schoenberg's principles he would not make the list as well as Ligeti whom I add because of his experiements in micropolyphony and as a precursor to the spectralists and other compsoers seeing composition as a pure exploration of sound). Other composers which could be taken off - Purcell, though he did as much as Monteverdi to bring in the Baroque, and Frescobaldi, only because his innovations were focused mostly in keyboard (like Chopin). Nevertheless I like my list.

While most of the list is solid, I think its far too heavily weighted to pre-classical period music. Also, where's Tchaikovsky? Or Stravinsky? There's no Russians on that list at all.

I lol'd at Pope Gregory.

It is heavily pre-classical because many people have this myopia of Western music from classical to present. Desprez in his mature work shows the same level of motivic correspondence and unity as Beethoven in his middle period. Dufay's parody masses are on equal footing as Wagner's operas (actually superior sometimes as Dufay does it in a much shorter span of time) with its leitmotif treatment. Western composers, if they are to develop, need to get their head out of the small slice of history from 1750 - 1914.

The Russians, again great synthesizers of elements built really, except for Scraibin, Mussorgsky and Rimsky-Korsakoff, no major innovations, and for these Russian composers it was in very narrow areas. Shocked?

If the list larger then Stravinsky would be in the top 200 with Scraibin holding a higher rank.

My serious top 11 list:

1. Beethoven/Mozart/Haydn - I place these three at the top for their immense influence over the 200+ years after their deaths. Their combined presences are felt in virtually all forms of music from Rock to Serialism to Minimalism - and everything in between.

2. Perotin - His expansion of Organum greatly impacted the future of Western Music by adding the dimensions of harmony (though incidental) and counterpoint to the tools available to composers. Definitely one of the most influential composers of all time for this work.

3. Palestrina - In keeping with the #2 spot... I felt it important to also add Palestrina. His innovative, and masterful, use of counterpoint ushered in a new era of complexity to Western Music - that in many ways is being used today in all genres.

4. Igor Stravinsky - It's a shame to see that Stravinsky doesn't get his due on this forum much. No other composer from the 20th century was able to transcend stylistic genres with such mastery and such influence. His early period revolutionized music to a great degree and influenced many later composers. His neo-classical period provided a stark contrast to the music of his contemporaries while still showcasing his hallmark modernist tendencies. His serial works exhibit a remarkable mastery and experimental complexity that stand out immensely. Definitely worthy of the top 5.

5. Schoenberg - Schoenberg sought to create a new musical language that would come to represent the ideals of independence. While sadly, many would decry his revolutionary changes to Western Music... it can't be argued that his work proved to influence the remainder of the 20th and the start of the 21st century.

6. Liszt - I'm still learning quite a bit about Liszt - especially his later work. A real pioneer who aided in expanding the language of music earlier than many other's after him. His piano works, particularly later, are amazing visions of what would come in the following century! A real visionary.

7. Hildegard Von Bingen - It's hard to imagine this woman working in a field that was predominantly the realm of man. Yet, her contributions to the Western tradition were immense. Amazing the strength she had in the 12th century to work in a man's world.

8. Monteverdi - Coming at a period of radical change in the Western Tradition,

Monteverdi introduced a lush dissonance to music that previously had been banned by the clergy who oversaw musical practice. The results of his contribution was the birth of baroque, classicism, and later Romanticism. Important to state though... he wasn't the only BUT... was one of the most influential.

9. Richard Wagner - Wagner's contribution and expansion of the musical language of the Western Tradition was incredible. His incorporation of previous developments by Beethoven, Mozart, Berlioz, Schubert, and many others lead to a language of complex sophistication that still resonates today in the works of many modern composers. The only scar, in my opinion, on this man were his political views.

10. Schubert - Schubert is often an overlooked composer who hid in the shadows of the giants of his time. Yet this little man, a quite apt description, provided many novel contributions to Symphonic music, choral music, and string quartets (just to a name a few). His penchant for extreme key changes -quite revolutionary for his time- influenced many of the later romantics after his music was pulled from the shelves it was used to line!

11. Ligeti - Ligeti's novel experimentation in texture has provided modern composers a much more expanded pallet of tools to utilize. I feel as time moves on away from his lifetime, he will prove to be a very influential force in the 21st and later centuries.

In my humble opinion, Bach should be number one, hands down. Everyone else is debatable.

Debussy is most influential of all time. Debussy was the beginning of a kind of music less focused on traditional melody based music. Debussy has melody, but it is different. It is more about the atmosphere created and the suggestion of a theme or an idea rather than boldly stating a story or an emotion. Debussy is the turning point in musical history for that change. He is the soul reason why modern film music can exist the way it does today. He is the sole reason we came to the more modern/less tonal/less traditional harmonic and formulaic styles of music like Barber, Copeland, Berg and even more modern/atonal than that like Stockhausen, Xenakis, Stravinsky, etc.

My serious top 11 list:

1. Beethoven/Mozart/Haydn - I place these three at the top for their immense influence over the 200+ years after their deaths. Their combined presences are felt in virtually all forms of music from Rock to Serialism to Minimalism - and everything in between.

I'm always dumbfounded when people say that the major Classical figures had great influence on many modern trends in Western music. I realize that both Serialism and Minimalism don't necessarily require a non-tonal style, but I think you would agree that it would be an outright lie to say that the majority of "modern" classical music is/was tonal (modern being the start of 20th and into the 21st century). Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to attack you or modern classical trends. I've just always been confused when someone says that they can see how something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo7TKBxqno8) influenced something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iUeqnB_sPM&feature=related). To me they seem to be UNIVERSES apart.

I've just always been confused when someone says that they can see how something like this (http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Yo7TKBxqno8) influenced something like this (http://www.youtube.c...feature=related). To me they seem to be UNIVERSES apart.

Easy peasy. As you note in the Mozart movement around 1:14 is a nice imitative gesture. But all that kind of imitation, variation and development of material led to a method to ensure that kind of economy of themes and motives. Schoenberg just extrapolated that to a very compact level, and fixed his material in a row. Besides, the quoted Schoenberg quartet has (according to wikipedia, woo unto me) an adapted sonata form. Anyone writing in some sort of sonata form cannot say to be not influenced by his predecessors, whether it be Stamitz, the first Viennese school, etc. ...

It would be a huge error to limit influence to harmonic (you call it tonal/non-tonal style) likeness.

I'm always dumbfounded when people say that the major Classical figures had great influence on many modern trends in Western music. I realize that both Serialism and Minimalism don't necessarily require a non-tonal style, but I think you would agree that it would be an outright lie to say that the majority of "modern" classical music is/was tonal (modern being the start of 20th and into the 21st century). Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to attack you or modern classical trends. I've just always been confused when someone says that they can see how something like this (http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Yo7TKBxqno8) influenced something like this (http://www.youtube.c...feature=related). To me they seem to be UNIVERSES apart.

Tonalism is just one of many tools that modern composers can utilize in their work. The influences of the 1st Viennese School, as they are called, were many. Here is a small list:

1. Form - Sectional forms were refined to a great extent by Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven. Sonata Allegro Form also was expanded upon by these three.

2. Thematic Structure - It was through the work of these three composers that late concept of the motif, leitmotif, and theme were refined and eventually established. Later composers, such as Wagner and Berlioz, expanded these concepts. Setting up matrices for serial composition also sets up the motivic structures within the work - these motivic structures are then developed utilizing many of the conventions established the 1st Viennese School. Again, as others have said in other threads, the Second Viennese School considered it's work as a continuation of the tradition and not a total departure.

3. Thematic Development - The means at which themes, motifs, and leitmotifs were developed was largely expanded by these three composers and then further expanded during the Romantic period.

These are just three of MANY different contributions made by Beethoven, Haydn, and Mozart. One important thing to consider when looking at influential marks of earlier composers in later composers work is that harmonic language has constantly been evolving since about the 11 Century AD. Thus, when you hear a work of Mozart and then hear a work of Stockhausen that echoes back to Mozart... you're not going to notice it harmonically.

Even though Mozart isn't my fav, I completely agree with this.

I'm always dumbfounded when people say that the major Classical figures had great influence on many modern trends in Western music. I realize that both Serialism and Minimalism don't necessarily require a non-tonal style, but I think you would agree that it would be an outright lie to say that the majority of "modern" classical music is/was tonal (modern being the start of 20th and into the 21st century). Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to attack you or modern classical trends. I've just always been confused when someone says that they can see how something like this (http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Yo7TKBxqno8) influenced something like this (http://www.youtube.c...feature=related). To me they seem to be UNIVERSES apart.

Funny you should choose Schoenberg as an example here. Schoenberg was massively influenced by Brahms, and viewed his own work as a natural extension of Brahms'. He even wrote a fairly well known essay 'Brahms the progressive' outlining the...progressive (surprise) features he saw in Brahms' music. Of course, Brahms revered Beethoven above everyone and studied his works keenly. Beethoven wrote his own early works under the influence of Mozart. See where this is going?

Unrelated: nice to see someone sticking up for Dufay and des Prez.