Objections To This Piece Of Music

Strange contextless question, I know, but I am simply curious.

What, if anything, do you find objectionable in this fifteen bars of music? http://www.noteflight.com/scores/view/825afd4f0c2dce1a42fce1f4136d4fda43d56d60

What in it marks it as failing or substandard in some way, if anything? Don't worry about hurting anyone's feelings ;). It was written bloodlessly, as a kind of exercise or experiment.

The lack of conclusion kinda sucks and some of the chords seem awkward, but there's nothing fundamentally objectionable (whatever that means in music).

If this is meant to be a piano piece, it is not very pianistic/idiomatic with the big stretches. However, it could work as a four part vocal piece (depending on the ranges and the actual singability of the intervals), or as a string quartet or some other instrumental ensemble.

If this is just an harmony exercice notated in grand staff, its objectionability would depend of the particular style/harmonic practice you are aiming for.

I see several problems here: 1. the ending lacks a cadencial clouse. 2. there is too much repetition in the harmonic vocubalary and 3. part writing, with a more in depth look, direct octaves and fifths could arises. Thus, I do object to this. Plus, why did the composer did not purchase a more professor software? or study harmonics?

Here is my route for this composer:

option one:

1. A self study course on harmonis counterpoint, and composition.

option two:

2. take lesson here or else where on the same topic(s).

I see several problems here: 1. the ending lacks a cadencial clouse. 2. there is too much repetition in the harmonic vocubalary and 3. part writing, with a more in depth look, direct octaves and fifths could arises. Thus, I do object to this. P,lus, why did the composer did not purchase a more professor software? or study harmonics?

Here is my route for this composer:

option one:

1. A self study course on harmonis counterpoint, and composition.

option two:

2. take lesson here or else where on the same topic(s).

Thanks, these are good comments. A few clarification question/comments:

1. The ending is the way it is, incidentally, because I pulled it out of a larger piece, sorry I didn't make that clear in the OP.

2. I am not sure what "repitition in the harmonic vocabulary" is referring to. Can you elaborate?

3. I know what you mean about octaves and fifths. (Is "direct" the same as "parallel" here?)

4. Are you offering to give me some money?

5. I'd like to hear in what specific ways which specific bits from the experiment break rules of harmonics or counterpoint. (The second half is meant to be more "contemporary," but the first hslf is intended to sound like a traditional chorale.)

Thanks again!

Offer you some money? Nah, it's not that satisfactory. The first half does not conform to the basic voice leading rules of a traditional chorale. A few examples from the first 4 bars: Parallel octaves: 1st bar 4th beat S - B, 2nd bar same, 3rd bar 2nd beat S - T, 3rd bar 4th beat S - B, 4th bar 1st beat S - B. Direct octaves: 1st bar 1st beat A - B, 2nd bar 2nd beat T - B. Direct 5th: 2nd bar 2nd beat A - TB. Doubled 3rds (without minor 3rd): 1st bar 2nd beat A - B, 4th bar 2nd beat S - B.

The joke about the money was because the person complained I hadn't purchased professional software.

As for your further points, I really appreciate you taking the time out to list them out. I'll take a look. (Not that I'm hell bent on making the thing conform, I'm just trying to find out what the difference is between what "sounds like" chorale (to me) and what it really is. I have vague memories about the various rules and whatnot, but am very glad to have someone walk me through it a little. So thanks!

Hm I must be remembering something completely incorrectly. I thought a parallel octave was when two voices are separated by an octave in two consecutive beats. Is that not what the phrase means?

Also I guess I don't remember what a "direct octave" is at all and inspecting the spots you mentioned isn't enlightening me. Can you define it for me real quick?

Googling has cleared up direct octaves for me. I'm still not sure what constitutes measure 1 beat three as having a parallel octave.

Thanks for the graphic, didn't notice it before my last post.

Stephen has pointed out the direct parrelelism, and, yes, these are forbiden in 4 part writing. Nonethless, Hidden ones are acceptable in certain case. By that I mean, moving from imperect to perfect cononsance when an inversion of traid is used. ;) But, and liked that said, hidden ones can be used if, and only if they are in they are "Inner parts". ;)

As for direct parrelelism: in later movements of music history, oragamun of the 5th and 8th came into piano writing and other literature, for two simple reasons: 1) the classical period brought a different style in and 2) the size of the orchestra increase.

Direct vs Hidden:

Direct 8ths and 5ths: 1) are between S and B voices and 2) easily seen

Hidden 8th and 5hs: 1) between inner voices or between an inner and outer voice. 2) less noticed. 3) more tolerable

I just answered this question above.

It's not obvious that you're making this up as you go along.

What are you even talking about, Aniolel

Stephen has pointed out the direct parrelelism, and, yes, these are forbiden in 4 part writing.

When asked what a "direct parelelism" was,

Direct 8ths and 5ths: 1) are between S and B voices and 2) easily seen

You can't have 8ths and 5ths between the extreme parts? Damn. We've been doing counterpoint wrong all this time, everybody. You can't have octaves and fifths between the bass and soprano.

Stephen has pointed out the direct parrelelism, and, yes, these are forbiden in 4 part writing. Nonethless, Hidden ones are acceptable in certain case. By that I mean, moving from imperect to perfect cononsance when an inversion of traid is used. ;) But, and liked that said, hidden ones can be used if, and only if they are in they are "Inner parts". ;)

As for direct parrelelism: in later movements of music history, oragamun of the 5th and 8th came into piano writing and other literature, for two simple reasons: 1) the classical period brought a different style in and 2) the size of the orchestra increase.

why is someone who can't write english properly and obviously has no idea what he's talking about considered a "teacher" on this website

no hidden direct parallisms favorite for me

thank you anilel

why is someone who can't write english properly and obviously has no idea what he's talking about considered a "teacher" on this website

Exactly.

I think the elemental counterpoint issue has been addressed already. Move on.

Thus, I do object to this. P,lus, why did the Aniolel did not spell a more professorally? or study sentence strucuristics?

why is someone who can't write english properly and obviously has no idea what he's talking about considered a "teacher" on this website

By picking on someone's language disability you're not disqualifying him - but only showing what a kind of major jerk you are.

A mediocre composer and a less-than-mediocre human being, whose only way to stand out is being a jerk to everyone else. You should switch your username to... Cesar Cui, perhaps?

baaaaackk to the topic...

The voice-leading is quite weird & the wide stretches are pretty close to unplayable. Those are the only objections i'd have. i wouldn't say there's anything like a chorale involved; it's much closer to pop style. (remember that a chorale is meant to be sung by amateurs; that the soprano line has some rather specific ways it's allowed to cadence; that the tempo is slower and there are pauses at the ends of phrases, etc, etc) The end is fine, imo.

As Schoenberg points out, there is a difference a difference between hidden and parallel fifths and octaves. With this he makes a subtle note about about horn or mozart 5ths and how the create an organum pattern.

What does the term "voice-leading" refer to, and what makes it weird?

BTW if anyone's curious to hear the larger thing this bit was ripped out from, it's here: http://www.noteflight.com/scores/view/d5053d9266ee8f8c53692b267630c457cb581f00

Voice leading/part writing: The rules in which that govern each of the four voices, or parts, (SATB) for a smooth connection when connecting one chord to the next chord.

What makes hard to challege undersand is: Tonality has evolve through history, and we are now in age where composers may or may not follow CPE rules of theory. CPE: Common pratice era( Baroque through Romantic periods). It is not nessicary "wierd" but the style has change so much that it's hard to keep up. My advice is to just write compose and learn as you go! :D

The sudden mood change between measures four and five is abrupt and does not seem to add much to the piece. Also, the discord seems out of place at the conclusion of the piece. Finally, while bass progression is an important part of piano music, the progression of the bass line seems uninspired.