Lugete O Veneres

Hi - I'm new, so I hope this is posted in the right part of the forum - if not, no offense intended.

I was recently commissioned to write a theme for a TV series to be shown on The Discovery Channel. The series examines the state of German aviation technology at the end of WWII and how that has melded into modern aeroplanes. When I saw the initial rushes, they were using Peer Gynt but the director wanted something that was as close as possible to Orffs Carmina Burana without infringeing copyright.

As a place to start, I took a latin poem by Catullus (who also wrote the poem that Orff set to the Burana) and rearranged the words so they would fit with a regular rhythmic pulse. I concentrated on lines that contained the most syllibants and plosives, in order to give the choir the chance to be more aggressive with the singing.

I composed the piece in about 5 hours - thats a piano score, not the orchestration. I listened to a lot of Orffs work before starting, and decided to imitate his use of open fifths and octaves - to give the orchestra a more "power-chord" feel - ommiting thirds from the chords to create a less diatonically anchored piece. Like Orff, the piece is powered by the orchestral percussion, ornamented by the strings (both pizz and arco) and woodwinds, and has the blast of the bass trombones in the bottom end to conjure up images of inpending doom - or something.

Structurally, the piece works as an ABBC format - the repeated B section being a quieter and louder version of the same melodic/harmonic sequence.

My main issue I had during composition was how to really push the second B section, without resorting to orchestral cliche - I eventually opted to go for root-fifth-octave flutes and a surfeit of percussion. It isn't perfect - but the size of the budget meant I had to get back to other projects fairly quickly.

The orchestra is the inimitable Gigastudio Orchestral, and the choir are The Elmer Isler Singers - who also sang on the soundtrack to Schindlers List (this is where most of the budget went!!).

I'd be very interested to know what any of you think of the piece, and will certainly update you all when I know the air dates for the programme!

Joel

PS - I'm not actually sure that the MP3 of this uploaded - if it didn't will someone let me know why? I found the file with the browse function, then clicked "add this attachment" - it's smaller than the Global Space Left requirements - I'm a little flummoxed! Cheers!

It didn't add the attachement, I'll try again. . .

oops.. nevermind :blush:

As a place to start, I took a latin poem by Catullus (who also wrote the poem that Orff set to the Burana)[/b]

I think you may mean the Catulli Carmina. I think all the poems etc Orff used for the Carmina Burana came from the Buranian scripts, no? I can't remember anything by Catullus in the latter.

I listened to a lot of Orffs work before starting, and decided to imitate his use of open fifths and octaves - to give the orchestra a more "power-chord" feel - ommiting thirds from the chords to create a less diatonically anchored piece. Like Orff, the piece is powered by the orchestral percussion, ornamented by the strings (both pizz and arco) and woodwinds, and has the blast of the bass trombones in the bottom end to conjure up images of inpending doom - or something.

When the file appears I'll give it a listen.

M

In which case!

Here's a link to the MP3 - http://www3.sympatico.ca/joellightman/LugeteOVeneres.mp3

And I've attached the choir score, which is all I have on the computer, the rest is on paper, I'm afraid

Joel_s_Choir.pdf

Christ, you've cribbed O Fortuna. EVERYONE will know where that came from! But ok, a telly audience may know no different.

:blush:

That was the commission - he wanted the O Fortuna, but he didn;t want to use the original and he didn;t want to be sued for it.

Hence, the piece - as I work for money, rather than intellectual satisfaction, I had to follow the brief in order to get paid!

No, that's fine - understand. But you'll need to pad the orchestra out a bit particularly in the big tutti.

I agree, the orchestra is kind of low...and the sopranos sound like they were shouting out those high notes, where the soprano goes up to a C.

But it was decently composed music, if highly suggestive of O Fortuna. I understand why you did it, as that's what they wanted. But, I'm sure you could've done more with this, it sort of sounds like a watered down O Fortuna, not O Fortuna 2.0 or something, which is what I would've expected.

I wouldn't go back to it now, it's all been submitted and approved, also I wasn't not being paid enough to carry on with something that was quite obviously a simple job.

Gigastudio is never going to recreate the full impact of a symphony orchestra, no matter how hard I work it - and a $10k budget doesn't pay for an orchestra to come and record it either!

But you're right, if I was going to continue this, the orchestra would be bigger, much bigger! :-)

Well, being one whose interest in a musical career is to do film and television work, I would think that one would strive to create the best material for the littler jobs, to gain more respect off the start, to eventually get bigger jobs. But you stated the limitations you had, so it's fine.

May I ask - were you using the Vienna samples that came with giga orchestra?

They are indeed Vienna samples, but they're the SE Pro version.

Ah, ok, thanks. I'm toying with the idea of giga that includes some of those samples but tended to steer away from the Vienna set. Illuminating to say the least, particularly your comments about the full orchestra. Still, the piece sounds reasonable as things go and presumably they'll use your rendition rather than get a session orchestra together.

Cheers.

There's a great review of the Vienna soundset here:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar04/articles/vienna.htm

And the companies website has some amazing demos on it, here:

http://www.vsl.co.at/

I thoroughly recommend both the programme and the soundset - you hear them used constantly on the TV (24, CSI etc - these programmes are FILLED with Giga. Also the new musical for Lord Of The Rings uses Vienna Symphonic, as well as many others) and it is usual for film composers to create the score on Giga before the orchestra budget is released (See the Superman Returns demo on the VSL website).

I've just started the music for a horror film called "A Dying Breed" and I've been paid upfront for the giga samples, and then they'll release the budget for the orchestra, once those are approved. The only thing that Giga can't do is portray the harmonic overtones that something like, say - a woodwond section create - so there's always a possibility of a snag once the orchestra comes in - but I use the Rimsky-Korsakov book endlessly, so I shouldn't happen. Touch wood!!

The Strings need to be louder. Listen to Verdi's Dies Irae. I think you are trying to go for that effect. And thank god you didn't end on a major chord like O Fortuna does. That is particularly....intriguing to say the least.

I am seriously NOT a fan of the Tierce de Picardie.

It has its moments, but in general, it's fluff.