Scherzo and Trio

Hi all!

Here is the Scherzo and Trio from my Baroque Suite WIP (think of it less as a Romantic contraption, and more as a pair of Bourrees). The Trio is a canon at the fifth over a free bass, and the Scherzo is a standard binary dance following an aria ritornello shape. In particular, the Scherzo is written with orchestral textures in mind (something like a flute + strings). Is this what you actually hear?

I really enjoyed this. Am I right to say that your use of the harpsichord for this work deliberately contrasts with form that you have used for this Scherzo & trio? I see that scherzo's existed during the time of Bach but did not become utilized as much as in the later classical period.

In terms of the material, it is very good. The opening theme reminded me of the same from Handel's Harmonious Blacksmith, in which the tonic rises to the third (I), before falling by a second to the G and finally rising a 4th to the C (V).

The counterpoint appears very 'Bachain' in approach, particularly with the tonal variety that has been injected. You have good imitation between the parts. I also like how you increase the texture where you intend to create a 'little' more drama which is executed rather effectively.

The Scherzo is not a form I have ever used. Having now listened to yours and read a little about it, it is not strictly a dance per se (as I had originally presumed); I see it means "joke" or "jest" in Italian, and my presumption of it being a dance probably is due to the triple meter and its later form being derived from the minuet and trio. With this in mind, I think you have captured the appropriate mood in your scherzo rather effectively, particularly in the second section, as the music diverges sharply and rather comically from the niceties of the first section. Finally, the syncopated theme of the trio has a comical affect considering the form's association with the minuet and trio. From my listening of music from the late classical era, composers of these forms often created motifs designed to unnerve and confuse would-be dancers. This is quite different to its treatment during the galant era, in which we typically hear generally consistent phrasing with graceful implication.

Thank you for sharing... you have made me now want to try this form.

4 hours ago, Markus Boyd said:

I really enjoyed this. Am I right to say that your use of the harpsichord for this work deliberately contrasts with form that you have used for this Scherzo & trio? I see that scherzo's existed during the time of Bach but did not become utilized as much as in the later classical period.

In terms of the material, it is very good. The opening theme reminded me of the same from Handel's Harmonious Blacksmith, in which the tonic rises to the third (I), before falling by a second to the G and finally rising a 4th to the C (V).

The counterpoint appears very 'Bachain' in approach, particularly with the tonal variety that has been injected. You have good imitation between the parts. I also like how you increase the texture where you intend to create a 'little' more drama which is executed rather effectively.

The Scherzo is not a form I have ever used. Having now listened to yours and read a little about it, it is not strictly a dance per se (as I had originally presumed); I see it means "joke" or "jest" in Italian, and my presumption of it being a dance probably is due to the triple meter and its later form being derived from the minuet and trio. With this in mind, I think you have captured the appropriate mood in your scherzo rather effectively, particularly in the second section, as the music diverges sharply and rather comically from the niceties of the first section. Finally, the syncopated theme of the trio has a comical affect considering the form's association with the minuet and trio. From my listening of music from the late classical era, composers of these forms often created motifs designed to unnerve and confuse would-be dancers. This is quite different to its treatment during the galant era, in which we typically hear generally consistent phrasing with graceful implication.

Thank you for sharing... you have made me now want to try this form.

My interpretation of the Baroque "Scherzo" is a dance movement with a lively character, generally with an unimpeded semiquaver rhythm in 2/4 time. I suppose all your Badineries and your Capriccios would fall into the same umbrella of categorisation. I have not paid too much attention to the "jest" element - the only thing I kept in mind when I composed this with regards to the musical character, is the "liveliness". I think both the orchestral-esque, flexible texture, and the terraced dynamics in the recording, have helped with this. The focus personally, has been to write something with an aria ritornello shape (Bach's method of choice for composing arias, sonatas, and binary movements), defined before the double-bars by a characteristic theme, some sequential material, and a closing cadence usually with chromatic tinges. What comes after the double-bars is a development comprising of reruns of material in different keys. See BWV 825/2 and BWV 825/3 (Partita No. 1, Allemande & Courante) for beautiful examples!

The theme actually began with BWV 1014/2 (Bach - Violin and Harpsichord Sonata in B Minor, mvmt. 2)! It was stuck in my head for a while, so the Trio's theme became a very simple modification of the opening material of BWV 1014/2. Then the Scherzo's theme became a further modification of the Trio's theme, with the rhythms slightly shuffled and the notes changed to reflect a I-V progression. I can definitely see the similarity to that Air from Handel's Harmonious Blacksmith!

Thank you for the detailed comment - I really appreciate it, and I'm very glad you enjoyed the piece. My exploration of form continues with the Allemande, which will be a chorale fantasia. Stay tuned!