incomplete

Hi

This is a piece I'm writing for the piano, but on my freeware music program the piano is awful, so it's on strings here.

"Incomplete" isn't the title-it doesn't have one yet. This is just the intro, but I'd like some comments/suggestions before moving on. I wanted to effect an overall feeling of a sort of downward spiral in this part, a mood constantly sinking

intro.mid

Just an intro, over three minutes...

You really can make long intros...

Well this piece, SUCKED. So dull and the well the harmonics don't seem to exsist. The melody rather dull. I hear that you expermient with dynamics a it.

I can hear that you try to give it some atonal feeling, well you've succeded with that, but it sounds like scraggy. I wasn't even bothered to listen through everything.

Useless, derogatory comment, Saiming - not what we like to encourage around here. This piece sounds no more dissonant than a huge number of other contemporary compositions. Try listening to some Penderecki, or even Schoenberg's Transfigured Night.

I think the work is actually fairly proficient. The pedal you use at the start, in conjunction with the very chromatic harmony a little higher in the strings, is an effective device, and in fact this is a technique used to some extent in Transfigured Night. The material is well-developed and the melody complements it satisfactorily. One thing I would discourage you from over-using is block chords very low down in the strings (or indeed the piano, if you do transfer it), as this leads to a somewhat unpleasant booming sound, but it's a good start, though if it is only the intro, I dare say that it's too long to guarantee holding the audience's attention.

haha, thanks for the honesty-

i will bother to respond even though you didn't bother to listen. i didn't try to give it "atonal feeling", but tried to create the despair of daily reality. "sucked" and "scraggy" sums up at least half of it. the harmonic world is consistent within itself although it doesn't follow theory, the majority of it is even tonal, though it's chromatic. it's not meant to entertain or excite you, oppressive is more like it. but it sets up the next section which will go into a psychadelic bizarre thing (escape through drugs) then return to reality, then escape through beauty, art and ideals, then return once again to incessant actuality, which i hope somehow to show is just another illusion. that's why it's an intro. not that an explanation redeems a horrible piece of art, so thanks for letting me know what you think. keep up the honesty.

i just saw your post mike-thanks for the helpful suggestions and for listening to it. this is my third piece so thoughtful comments are priceless

Just an intro, over three minutes...

You really can make long intros...

Well this piece, SUCKED. So dull and the well the harmonics don't seem to exsist. The melody rather dull. I hear that you expermient with dynamics a it.

I can hear that you try to give it some atonal feeling, well you've succeded with that, but it sounds like scraggy. I wasn't even bothered to listen through everything.

Childish comment here. Just don't come comment in the atonal and experimental threads if you can't be mature enough Saiming. I guess that you would prefer that I don't start destroying your music with stupid comments and unecessary comments.

To Sevanism :

If you wish to add a score file that would be helpful for both of us. I'll try to listen more closely at home and add some comments. I'm at work now and cannot hear very well on that computer. But the first impression I got is that the music you shared with us here is very dense and it have a lot of character which is a very good point to start with. Lots of composers have a good talent to combine notes but don't have a clue about why they need to express in music... and your point of view seems to be clear. Anyway... that's just a first impression without having a good environment to listen. I'll try to say more useful stuff tonight. Add a score if you see my comment before I can post some more. Cheers. And by the way, don't take hard comments of young people that have only the goal to reproduce existing music and that don't seek beyond themselves to improve their mean of expression... they are just scribes of music... you are already a composer... still needing to learn (as we all) obviously... but a composer still.

Dunael, thank you for taking some time with this, I know it's hard without the score. Unfortunately my program was a free download and I can't print or copy it without sending money. I hope to get sibelius or finale soon. Until then, all I can send is the midi. You wouldn't want this score anyway, it looks like a mess because it won't even let me switch time signatures within the piece, I just have to write it and disregard the barlines.

It will be a while before it's actually finished...once it is I will try to use a better program.

A bit more comment for I can hear something now.

The first two minutes really would sound impressive with a real orchestra... it would be dense, oppressive just like you wished it. Around 2 minutes there is a section that could lead somewhere... but I think that musically you miss an opportunity to create variation. One thing that I do like a lot is the way you have to define the number of beats in your sentences... 9 beats, 8 beats, 5 or so... etc... with that kind of beat divisions you really can play with numbers if you like it and manipulate effectively the music... like...

A sequence could cycle... creating a feeling that always comes back to the beginning without hope to arise...

But you can also use a cycle that gets always shorter like (in beats) 13 9 8 11 5 12 7 10 6 3 5 4 2 1... or anything else that suits you... it just give a non-linear effect of stringendo (narrowing...)... that is very effective.

Of course, you can play a lot of games with these unegal mesuring... it up to you to find what you need. The only think is that since you got a quiet heavy density of sound... you could use other lesser levels (at winds for example) with other rythmical values for it sound a bit too square always... that gives an oppressive effect, but that can become a lack of imagination of also... be wary.

Well, I don't have time to comment more, I hope it can help to give you some ideas.

thanks, those are great suggestions. i'm going to play around with each of them.

do you like what comes after 2 minutes or should i keep moving in the direction it feels like it wants to head? i thought about further developing that idea later, and just planting the premonition of it here.

possibly i need to finish the "book" before i rewrite it, to give it the perspective it needs and to give me the raw material to work with in connection with the following parts.

Childish comment here. Just don't come comment in the atonal and experimental threads if you can't be mature enough Saiming. I guess that you would prefer that I don't start destroying your music with stupid comments and unecessary comments.

I sense that this will be a loong virtual fight.

Are you saying that my thoughts are bad? There is something called being subjective. Maybe you didn't know that. I can understand what Mike wants, that my comment was not "helpful" enough, I can accept that. But you, what do you want to achieve by your paragraph?

I'm merely being honest. If the composer doesn't agree with me, he can ignore me, I shouldn't care. What constructive criticism can I offer when I believe a piece is simply scraggy?

I can't destroy his music with mere comments if he doesn't allow me. I think it's obvious he didn't make a fuss about it, so why should you waltz in acting like you're his daddy?

My lovable Saiming-

Yeah, I accept that you think my music is scraggy. This makes you interesting to me, and capable of giving me constructive advice by tearing it apart on your own terms for me to see why you hate it. Then I can hold the value of your ideas up to mine and choose from what I believe is best in both. I'm 23 and still more than willing to learn from someone younger than me. But instead you objectively stated it, not at all subjectively or in a reasoned way.

So, please accept that someone thought your comment was scraggy, and follow your own advice- if you don't agree, you can ignore him. He was merely being honest as you say. Maybe begin a new thread elsewhere to discuss criticism, personal taste, honesty/integrity of expression, etc. They are important discussions, but I would appreciate it if you didn't have them here.

Oh, and I don't ignore you whether I agree with you or not.

Well, I thought it was quite good. Baleful but it works. I take it that it's written for (nominally) 4 hands.

Thanks to previous advice from a poster on this very thread, I changed it to the piano on my pc midi synth. That transformed it! Trying to rearrange a bass-heavy piano work literally note-for-note for strings doesn't work. I understand that you did it for strings because you don't like your piano sound - mine's not exactly Bosendorfer but it gets by on midis!

I've hardly any comment to make. Played, it would sound different - round about bar 7 things start to get interesting and if playing, I'd emphasise the RH melody notes a little. Fine, when it moves into bars 9 and 10.

I think this is more than an intro. It's all but a movement in its own right - all you need is to make the ending more final. It's too abrupt at the moment, though that's what you want for just an intro. It's powerful and intense - But what can you follow it with?

Well done.

M

Saming, did you listen to the file as is, for strings? It taxed me trying to unimagine the strings then think piano. So I changed it.

it's written for two hands, and i would say it's quite playable so far. i wish i could show you the score.

thank you for the comments and suggestions, your words were very encouraging. as far as being more than an intro, the "form" i have in my head is one seamless movement, but with at least 3 extremely contrasting sections. maybe like a sort of tone poem. this is representing the first section, so i guess the word intro doesn't fit, but the abrupt ending is where i'm going to begin leading into the second section - drug trip - , so it'll be transformed entirely.

Are you saying that my thoughts are bad?.....I'm merely being honest. If the composer doesn't agree with me, he can ignore me, I shouldn't care. What constructive criticism can I offer when I believe a piece is simply scraggy?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however deragatory comments are unnecessary and very immature. There are nicer ways to express a dislike of a piece. Not everyone has the same tastes in music, and it is possible to offer a "biased" opinion because of this. I am willing to bet you have an intolerance for dissonance, and if this is the case, then your opinion is in fact, biased. How can such a review even be considered valid? If the opinion is not biased, state your dislike in a more appropriate way and support your criticism. Thank you.

I was very impressed with your piece. I do not feel the need to comment extensively except to say that some of the harmonies could be thinned a bit in certain places, just to enhance the top line. I know you were going for thick and oppressive (which came off very effectively), but brief, occasional relief from the continual block chords would actually enhance the dark, cynical mood.

I think that many of the negative comments this piece has garnered are simply from people who have an intolerance of dissonance (like I once did). However, in time, I have grown to appreciate it as a useful device for expressing a range of emotions/ideas. Your work is already very mature, and I recommend you listen to and learn from some other like-minded individuals. One specific composer I would like to mention is Thomas M. Sleeper Give him a listen and see what you think.

Eager to hear more of your work.

Thank you for the encouragement. I agree with your critique about the thinning. I don't want to strike the listeners in the head so many times they go numb. I need more experience before I come back to it though, being my first one.

I'm starting a new thread (incomplete completed) for this with more explanation, since I never posted the finished version. Let me know what you think.

I'll definitely check out sleeper, thanks for the suggestion.

I say it again, that could really sound hot with a whole big orchestra... :wub: