clair de lune for orchastra

Hi again @Tunndy!

I've watched all your "orchasrations" so far and I have to ask:  are you learning anything from this process?  It seems like all you're doing is importing midi's of the piano pieces into an orchestra template and copying and pasting the different parts into various instruments, essentially just doubling the parts, mostly in the same register as the original.  But there's so much more to orchestration.  In your orchestrations, you always include the piano part in the final finished orchestration, but I think a real test of whether you can effectively turn piano pieces into orchestra pieces would be if you excluded the piano from the orchestration.  Let's see if the orchestration can stand on its own, without the piano!  There were plenty of opportunities in this piece to use the string orchestra really dynamically, to create something that is quite different from the original piano piece.  Like when Debussy stacks the F and Ab dyads in various registers, each an octave higher than the previous:  I think you could have used the string orchestra really dynamically here by using the Violas, 2nd Violins, and 1st Violins to sustain those dyads and create a rich chord.  That's just one example.  But I don't think you're learning any of these techniques with the way you're orchestrating these pieces.  And, honestly, I find your "orchastration" videos kinda cringe. 😕  Thanks for sharing though and if you do learn something from doing this then by all means, keep going!

@PeterthePapercomPoser

Kind of hurts, but I see where you're coming from 

1 hour ago, Tunndy said:

 

 

25 minutes ago, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

Hi again @Tunndy!

I've watched all your "orchasrations" so far and I have to ask:  are you learning anything from this process?  It seems like all you're doing is importing midi's of the piano pieces into an orchestra template and copying and pasting the different parts into various instruments, essentially just doubling the parts, mostly in the same register as the original.  But there's so much more to orchestration.  In your orchestrations, you always include the piano part in the final finished orchestration, but I think a real test of whether you can effectively turn piano pieces into orchestra pieces would be if you excluded the piano from the orchestration.  Let's see if the orchestration can stand on its own, without the piano!  There were plenty of opportunities in this piece to use the string orchestra really dynamically, to create something that is quite different from the original piano piece.  Like when Debussy stacks the F and Ab dyads in various registers, each an octave higher than the previous:  I think you could have used the string orchestra really dynamically here by using the Violas, 2nd Violins, and 1st Violins to sustain those dyads and create a rich chord.  That's just one example.  But I don't think you're learning any of these techniques with the way you're orchestrating these pieces.  And, honestly, I find your "orchastration" videos kinda cringe. 😕  Thanks for sharing though and if you do learn something from doing this then by all means, keep going!

 

I agree with Peter. But, mostly...  IT IS A PIECE NOT A SONG! PLEASE! That is a reason why it is cringe. Reason 2: It is not the most beautiful. It might seem 'catchy', and that is why it is cringe. Reason 3: You have to make a joke out of musical techniques that take a long time to master. Explain them professionally. 

Here is my recommendation: Create two videos for any of your orchestrations using a voiceover. Record it first, and then make a 'cringe' video and a 'professional' one. It gets you more views, and I would be happy too because then there is something to learn.

Just a friendly reminder, We are not insulting you, we are trying to help you. 

1 minute ago, TristanTheTristan said:

 

I agree with Peter. But, mostly...  IT IS A PIECE NOT A SONG! PLEASE! That is a reason why it is cringe. Reason 2: It is not the most beautiful. It might seem 'catchy', and that is why it is cringe. Reason 3: You have to make a joke out of musical techniques that take a long time to master. Explain them professionally. 

Here is my recommendation: Create two videos for any of your orchestrations using a voiceover. Record it first, and then make a 'cringe' video and a 'professional' one. It gets you more views, and I would be happy too because then there is something to learn.

Just a friendly reminder, We are not insulting you, we are trying to help you. 

 

Also, maybe study wanderer's fantasy for piano and orcherstra alongside the original. It will definitely give you an idea.

Quote

I agree with Peter. But, mostly...  IT IS A PIECE NOT A SONG! PLEASE! That is a reason why it is cringe. Reason 2: It is not the most beautiful. It might seem 'catchy', and that is why it is cringe. Reason 3: You have to make a joke out of musical techniques that take a long time to master. Explain them professionally. 

Here is my recommendation: Create two videos for any of your orchestrations using a voiceover. Record it first, and then make a 'cringe' video and a 'professional' one. It gets you more views, and I would be happy too because then there is something to learn.

Just a friendly reminder, We are not insulting you, we are trying to help you. 

I don't think it's that much of a crime to call a piano song "a piece" 
I do bealive it is the most beautiful piece ever written, so I don't feel regrets calling it that
but even if I didn't it's youtube, people sometimes use catchy titles, no need to go insane about it
I undrastand that you're trying to help, but that's not how I'd define support. 
same with reason three, yes, I make jokes, yes, I don't explain every little thing like a harvard composition teacher, again 
it's a youtube video

49 minutes ago, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

I've watched all your "orchasrations" so far and I have to ask:  are you learning anything from this process?  It seems like all you're doing is importing midi's of the piano pieces into an orchestra template and copying and pasting the different parts into various instruments, essentially just doubling the parts, mostly in the same register as the original.  But there's so much more to orchestration.  In your orchestrations, you always include the piano part in the final finished orchestration, but I think a real test of whether you can effectively turn piano pieces into orchestra pieces would be if you excluded the piano from the orchestration.  Let's see if the orchestration can stand on its own, without the piano!  There were plenty of opportunities in this piece to use the string orchestra really dynamically, to create something that is quite different from the original piano piece.  Like when Debussy stacks the F and Ab dyads in various registers, each an octave higher than the previous:  I think you could have used the string orchestra really dynamically here by using the Violas, 2nd Violins, and 1st Violins to sustain those dyads and create a rich chord.  That's just one example.  But I don't think you're learning any of these techniques with the way you're orchestrating these pieces.  And, honestly, I find your "orchastration" videos kinda cringe. 😕  Thanks for sharing though and if you do learn something from doing this then by all means, keep going!

this on the other hand I do somewhat appreciate , I still don't think you should be calling anybody's work cringe, even if it absolotly is, but I do appreciate you pointing out the fact I'm not really learning anything new in those videos, because I do strive to learn and improve.
my next video is planned to be an original composition, with that reason being one of the reasons I chose to switch the style up a bit.
with that being said
again
it's a youtube video
sometimes people just do nonsense on youtube videos
that's also fine as long as they're having fun
which I was.

So, you should take a look at probably the most famous orchestration of this piece by Caplet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DB8rBvyPoE
And I'm gonna suggest something really boring, but if you have an extra few hours, I'd go and like copy all of this—like, note for note. By hand, if you can, just to get it in your hands and brain what instruments go where and what they're best at doing (possibly even better if you try to transcribe it, then check your work). You've got some pretty good foundations for what makes an orchestral work tick, which is a great start (e.g., you mention adding more instruments to make the piece feel fuller), but you'll notice that there are so many times where what's written deviates from the piano score. Like at 3:05, when the main theme comes back in, Caplet adds these gorgeous violin solo notes to add chord pitches (that aren't even in the original!), a sustained note in a sing-song register, and serve as counterpoint. Also, going into 3/4 in half the orchestra at 1:00, while everyone else stays in 9/8? What a cool effect!

And the best part is, you'll get to see where you and he align on your choices! For example, at 3:08, you actually agreed that double flutes would work, but I believe you changed it to flute and clarinet in the final version of yours. 

It's worth taking the opportunity here to also improve standard notation practices. Like in the first measure, in 9/8 you can't actually have any half notes because 9/8 is representing triplet compound meter, so three dotted half notes need to be visually represented. Little things like that go a long way.

You have a good budding ear for what makes orchestral works sound so pretty and grand, but you can take this opportunity to really reinforce that knowledge with score study and practice. The theory of it doesn't really matter (lessons on acoustics and stuff have always been super boring to me); what matters is knowing what things pair well and knowing when to use those tools. Best of luck and keep at it.

1 minute ago, Monarcheon said:

So, you should take a look at probably the most famous orchestration of this piece by Caplet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DB8rBvyPoE
And I'm gonna suggest something really boring, but if you have an extra few hours, I'd go and like copy all of this. By hand, if you can, just to get it in your hands and brain what instruments go where and what they're best at doing (possibly even better if you try to transcribe it, then check your work). You've got some pretty good foundations for what makes an orchestral work tick, which is a great start (e.g., you mention adding more instruments to make the piece feel fuller), but you'll notice that there are so many times where what's written deviates from the piano score. Like at 3:05, when the main theme comes back in, Caplet adds these gorgeous violin solo notes to add chord pitches (that aren't even in the original!), a sustained note in a sing-song register, and serve as counterpoint. 

And the best part is, you'll get to see where you and he align on your choices! For example, at 3:08, you actually agreed that double flutes would work, but I believe you changed it to flute and clarinet in the final version of yours. 

It's worth taking the opportunity here to also improve standard notation practices. Like in the first measure, in 9/8 you can't actually have any half notes because 9/8 is representing triplet compound meter, so three dotted half notes need to be visually represented. Little things like that go a long way.

You have a good budding ear for what makes orchestral works sound so pretty and grand, but you can take this opportunity to really reinforce that knowledge with score study and practice. The theory of it doesn't really matter (lessons on acoustics and stuff have always been super boring to me); what matters is knowing what things pair well and knowing when to use those tools. Best of luck and keep at it.

thank you very much! I've actually heard of this method of litterally writing down by hand existing works, and even have done it a few times, sadly I really don't think I'll have the time in the near future to write down an entire orchastral score 
I'd definetly go over his version and study it though, thank you for the kind comment

8 minutes ago, Tunndy said:

I've actually heard of this method of litterally writing down by hand existing works, and even have done it a few times, sadly I really don't think I'll have the time in the near future to write down an entire orchastral score 

You must have orchestral pieces that you really like? Maybe even, like, film scores or musical theater scores? When I first got started soooooo long ago, I would spend hours listening, replaying, transcribing, and writing everything that I heard. And holy hell, I definitely got better because I was engaging my brain in piecing everything together. Copying note-for-note is alright (as long as you're listening alongside it), but transcribing it arguably even better. And, bonus, you get to practice transcription too! 

But yeah, basically, don't be so beholden to the original work, is my biggest advice. There's a reason that every collegiate composition course in the world has you take a very, very short piano miniature and orchestrate it. I remember my class took Ligeti's Musica ricercata, II., and orchestrated it. Super short, and literally only three notes. It was hard. But with practice—and creativity—it all comes together.

2 minutes ago, Monarcheon said:

You must have orchestral pieces that you really like? Maybe even, like, film scores or musical theater scores? When I first got started soooooo long ago, I would spend hours listening, replaying, transcribing, and writing everything that I heard. And holy hell, I definitely got better because I was engaging my brain in piecing everything together. Copying note-for-note is alright (as long as you're listening alongside it)), but transcribing it arguably even better. And, bonus, you get to practice transcription too! 

But yeah, basically, don't be so beholden to the original work, is my biggest advice. There's a reason that every collegiate composition course in the world has you take a very, very short piano miniature and orchestrate it. I remember my class took Ligeti's Musica ricercata, II., and orchestrated it. Super short, and literally only three notes. It was hard. But with practice—and creativity—it all comes together.

I really love The Nutcracker Suite, or "Waltz of the Flowers" by Tchaikovsky
to be fair, I often times am very bored in class, maybe I'll get one of those notebooks that have a staff in them, and print out a piece or two, and just sit down and write them
thank you for your words of advice!

Dude you're perfect for youtube, and I think you reach an audience that helps people find how great "classical" music is. Your editing is great, and you're pretty funny. I'm excited to hear you mentioning your original work too, that'll be great for your channel. 

Awesome stuff, you've got a great personality in your videos!

3 minutes ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

Dude you're perfect for youtube, and I think you reach an audience that helps people find how great "classical" music is. Your editing is great, and you're pretty funny. I'm excited to hear you mentioning your original work too, that'll be great for your channel. 

Awesome stuff, you've got a great personality in your videos

Aw that's super sweet of youuu

Thank you very much

One of my goals when starting this channel was exactly that, to get people to actually sit down and listen to the "nerdy" classical music, because it's SO GOTDAMN GOOD PEOPLE ARE MISSING OUT

Just now, Tunndy said:

Aw that's super sweet of youuu

Thank you very much

One of my goals when starting this channel was exactly that, to get people to actually sit down and listen to the "nerdy" classical music, because it's SO GOTDAMN GOOD PEOPLE ARE MISSING OUT

 

 

I recommend also making videos on like... less known stuff? Like the Waltz B.21 by Frederyk Chopin. Or this one! Make it in to a solo piano piece! 

.

Or try orchestrating Op. 46 Allegro de Concert by Frederyk Chopin. It was intended to be a concerto anyways...

Just now, TristanTheTristan said:

I recommend also making videos on like... less known stuff? Like the Waltz B.21 by Frederyk Chopin. Or this one! Make it in to a solo piano piece! 

.

 

Or try orchestrating Op. 46 Allegro de Concert by Frederyk Chopin. It was intended to be a concerto anyways...

 

3 minutes ago, Tunndy said:

Aw that's super sweet of youuu

Thank you very much

One of my goals when starting this channel was exactly that, to get people to actually sit down and listen to the "nerdy" classical music, because it's SO GOTDAMN GOOD PEOPLE ARE MISSING OUT

 

 

I also support your idea of ''getting people to actually sit down and listen to the "nerdy" classical music, because it's SO GOTDAMN GOOD PEOPLE ARE MISSING OUT''. I like this idea!