Hi to all,

Here's my first attempt to orchestrate this nocturne.

I actually started this last year, and never really finished it properly.

I know there's a load of things wrong with it! Not least all the missing slurs and clumsy handovers, etc...

The cadenza-like figure on Pages 8 and 9 is particularly awkward to orchestrate: so any suggestions would be very welcome!

Maybe I should divide up the runs into shorter figures, and spread them out across different instruments?

Perhaps dovetailing these together with overlapping notes, or single handover notes?

That way the cadenza could work its way around the orchestra to give a nice 3D effect?

Anyway, just thinking outloud!

Hope you enjoy.

(N.B. Revised versions will be posted lower down the thread.)

Nocturne No.1 in Eb minor (Faure orchestration) #41.pdf

Edited Tuesday at 02:22 AM4 days by Alex Weidmann

Hello @Alex Weidmann.

This is beautiful orchestration of Faure's Prelude. I love the tonal colors and textures you have created. However, I have a few minor suggestions.

1. I would recommend have full score on page 1in score order. Then following pages, you can condense it.

2. woods and brass usually share staves. That way, you can write a2 or which wood part or which brass part.

3. The Pitch percussion is barely noticeable.

4. Same goes for the harp.

3 and 4 have to do with orchestral balance issues.

Hello

I have to say that, overall, it sounds very good.

Without being a super-expert in orchestration, I think I’d take a closer look at a few things.

For example, there are some very large leaps that could be handled differently, such as the bass clarinet and oboes in bars 9–10, or the tuba in bars 107–109. There are other examples too.

I’m not familiar with the original version, but perhaps it’s a bit too literal.

There are very low registers for some instruments, such as that piccolo arpeggio in bar 87. And with an impossible pppppp dynamic, which is also incongruous: as it ascends, it doesn’t make sense for the volume to decrease.

Many thanks Luis and Kvothe for your comments!

Yes you're right, the score is a mess! It's designed for midi rendition: so I haven't tidied it up yet.

Where I have separate staffs in the woods and brass, it's because the material is too complex to combine into one staff. Although I do have more work to do on assigning a2 and solo passages.

The piccolo was sounding very shrill and horrible at Bar 87: so I tried to pull it down with the pppppp!

In practice that whole cadenza-like passage needs rewriting in some kind of modified gesture, because it doesn't translate very well to orchestra in this literal transcription.

The large jumps in woods and brass would probably be difficult to play: so I will try to change those somehow. Maybe by alternating between instruments?

I will try pulling up the dynamics on the vibe, glock and harp, though I do want them to be fairly subtle.

N.B. My tempo is much faster than the original piano work, because I felt it sounded better that way. Wonder if others agree with this choice?

It's a lovely work that's not especially well known: so hopefully I'll be able to do it justice in the end!

@Alex Weidmann

No worries. Yeah, that makes sense. :) Some programs are annoying to work with score set up. Trust me, I know. (haha...finale).

But..hey..I enjoyed it!

I made a better version of this now, based on points raised by Luis and Kvothe.

Still have a few big jumps in the trombone and bass clarinet to sort out.

Also need to put all my slurs in; but otherwise it's more or less done I think?

Nocturne No.1 in Eb minor (Faure orchestration) #73 (score).pdf

Edited Tuesday at 04:57 AM4 days by Alex Weidmann

Looking at that key is giving me anxiety....orchestral players are not gonna love it. I wasn't familiar with the piano piece so I did take a listen to it to compare.

1. I'm not a fan of the faster tempo marking....I think it zaps away the "nocturnal" feeling and feels more like a slow waltz at the faster tempo. Also, the piece as written by Faure is so idiomatic for the piano, that it invites tempo fluctuations/rubato that will be hard to capture in an orchestration without clear guidance in the score. And with that awful key!!!! Orchestrating this is a challenge.

2. There is a lot of over reliance on woodwinds here....especially in the beginning. Without slurs and phrasing markings in the score and audio, it sounds a little sterile. Also wind players have to breathe....that flute line from the beginning to A is gonna be tough. Also, a lot of awkward writing in general (comments above already have highlighted some of these). Example below of the bassoons/contrabassoon before A...contrabassoon part seems wasted on high random notes, and the 64th rest (I think?) right before A in the 1st bassoon is dangerous:

2. I think there are certain figures that can be better suited for string players:

The figure above might be better for the cellos to play (with proper slurring and articulation written in). Measures 23-29 can be given to the upper strings. I think in general you have to be a little more creative with your orchestral colors.

3. The whole thing from 86-93 is not good in my opinion. This is where you have to get REALLY creative to orchestrate that cadenza, and the way it is written now....having 12-14 first violinists play those fast notes (in that very ugly key) and then dovetailing to one piccolo player and back is not going to sound good.

I think @Luis Hernández said it best in his comment: it is a little to literal "transcription" of the original piano work. It definitely needs a lot of creative changing to translate it to have an orchestra tackle it.

"Orchestral players are not going to love it" 🤪

Rachmaninoff wrote this piece in the same key...Rachmaninoff's Symphony No. 2 / Vasily Petrenko / Oslo Philharmonic

Professionals will be fine.

Student musicians are the ones you have to worry about.

17 minutes ago, Kvothe said:

Professionals will be fine.

Student musicians are the ones you have to worry about.

True. There definitely will be some comments made though lol.

Also, Rachmaninoff’s symphony is in the friendly key of E Minor, not E Flat minor.

Great analysis, thanks Danish!

For the cadenza, what if I just have one solo violinist dovetailing with the woodwinds?