Romantic Harmony

How would I go about learning romantic harmony like Chopin or Tchaikovsky?

Edited Sunday at 05:05 AM3 days by Colenbacher

Listen more, analyze more, find some good harmony books on it!

Henry

16 hours ago, Colenbacher said:

How would I go about learning romantic harmony like Chopin or Tchaikovsky?

What is your skill level?

Thank you!

3 minutes ago, Kvothe said:

What is your skill level?

I am an intermediate composer

33 minutes ago, Colenbacher said:

I am an intermediate comp

33 minutes ago, Colenbacher said:

I am an intermediate composer

No. I meant your skill level at playing an instrument.

19th century music falls into CPE. Thus, depending what you can play that would be first stop, my friend. :)

Just now, Kvothe said:

No. I meant your skill level at playing an instrument.

Ahh, sorry! I am an advanced oboe player!

2 minutes ago, Colenbacher said:

Ahh, sorry! I am an advanced oboe player!

Ah.

Back to @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu point! I would not start with Chopin. Start with Bach.

1 minute ago, Kvothe said:

Ah.

Back to @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu point! I would not start with Chopin. Start with Bach.

Okay, thank you!

2 minutes ago, Kvothe said:

Back to @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu point! I would not start with Chopin. Start with Bach.

Where did Henry say that?

40 minutes ago, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

Where did Henry say that?

Maybe in my dream and @Kvothe divined it 😅

@Henry Ng Tsz Kiu I was referring to the point that harmony books, listening, and score study would help him

I’m in a similar position, are there any specific books you’d recommend?

4 hours ago, piano1324 said:

I’m in a similar position, are there any specific books you’d recommend?

Romantic harmony is a subset of function harmony. Depending on your budget, I can recommend several books.

I’m going to be reading EBooks anyway but for now we can say the budget is 70$

7 hours ago, piano1324 said:

I’m going to be reading EBooks anyway but for now we can say the budget is 70$

Guide to the Practical Study of Harmony (Dover Books On Music: Analysis): Tchaikovsky, Peter Ilyitch: 9780486442723: Amazon.com: Books

Modulation (Dover Books On Music: Analysis): Reger, Max: 9780486457321: Amazon.com: Books

Schoenberg has two: Theory of Harmony and Structures of tonal harmony

Harmony and voice leading and tonal harmony: both are used at the undergraduate level.

Theory and Analysis, the musician guide is also used too.

Remember books can take so far. You have look at examples and analyze works.

Composers: Beethoven, Schubert, Schuman, Chopin, ect. All of these learned from those before composers before them. Beethoven learned from Haydn and Crenzy. Crezny who taught listz!

Thanks! I’ll take a look at these books. I’ll look at pieces too but its important that I first build the background to be able to take in the stuff that I see.

You got it!

Me personnally, I found Beethoven useful as he was on the cusp of the classical/romantics eras. One really good example of his work is movement 1 of Moonlight. The fact that the middle voice is just arppegios makes it very easy to identify the chords and harmonies. Mendleson's keyboard works are also amazing for voice leading. If you're thinking about more Rach/Debussy impressionist works, I've found that the complexity and 'romanticism' of their works is more so in the rhythms. Don't fight me, just my opinions.

Fair point. His later works were more chromatic.

See, the correct word you guys want is not "romantic' but "chromatic".

During the 19th century, composers used modal mixture, 9ths, etc.

I think OP wants to learn about the harmonic tendencies and practices of Romantic composers rather than chromatic harmony more generally, which covers a lot of styles, hence the choice of "Romantic" over "Chromatic".

As for learning this style of Harmony, I highly recommend analysing works from the period (as others have suggested) or (if you're lazy like me) watching YouTube videos analysing works from the period.

Edited 16 hours ago16 hr by expert21

@Colenbacher

Hello

I understand your question very well. And I also understand that the answers aren't exactly what you're looking for. Although I agree with them as well.

I believe that rather than learning harmony from the Romantic period, what matters is learning the compositional techniques that the composers of this period introduced and used (not just in terms of harmony).

It’s absolutely true that to understand this, you need to start by knowing what happened in earlier periods, at least from the Baroque through the Style Galant and Classicism. Because many Romantic techniques are reinventions (“recycled”) of all those earlier styles.

I don’t think you’ll find specific sections on Romantic harmony in general treatises and books.

I’ve had that curiosity, and interest as well. But I studied the Baroque and the Galant period quite extensively, above all. I even started much earlier with the cantus firmus. And that historical and chronological perspective has helped me immensely in understanding even contemporary music.

With this, you’ll see that everything is a continuum; even periods that broke quite sharply with what came before (Impressionism, dodecaphonism) are the result of an evolution.

So, just as I did with other periods, I sought out the sources myself and compiled a lot of information on this topic on my blog. First, I provided a general overview, which I’ve transcribed here, and then I analyzed techniques such as augmented chords and modulation, secondary subdominants, dominant chains, chromatic thirds, (traditional) linear techniques, irregular resolutions, and so on.

Not to mention that Romanticism is a vast genre and that each composer, moreover, has their own peculiarities. Brahms has nothing in common with Chopin. And let’s not even get started on late Romanticism.

Some words from my blog:

CHARACTERISTICS OF THE ROMANTIC PERIOD

*New forms: symphonic poem, song cycle, music drama,

*Study of the folk-heritage in music and imitation of folk-like melodic simplicity,

*Predilection for exotic effects through employment of foreign national coloring or the folkloristic heritage (Chopin, Tchaikovsky, the Russians) [Chopin's more than 50 mazurkas represent one of the earliest examples of overt nationalistic sentiments in music],

*Break-up of stylistic unity but more individualism,

*Higher interest in melody and color rather than harmony and form, longer melodies

*Higher dissonances and a freer employment of them,

* More use of dynamics and articulations,

* Rubato,

*A more innovative treatment of chromatic harmony,

*Extensive use of diminished seventh chords,

*Modulation to distant tonalities,

*Use of relations by thirds,

*Greater interest in modal techniques (flat seventh [common to many modes], flat second [Phrygian], augmented fourth [Lydian]),

*Assimilation of older elements, especially the revival of polyphony and Baroque forms under the influence of JS Bach [Mendelssohn, Brahms],

*Thematicism plays a more important role in a sonata movement than tonality,

*Thematic metamorphosis: A programmatic approach to composition often associated thematic material with a character or idea. Changing circumstances or emotional states were represented by the transformation of the thematic material (as in Faust Symphony or Symphony Fantastique),

*Cell development technique in nationalist music, (music cell = small and melodioc design that can be isolated)

*Use of a cyclic device: Material from one movement recurs in another (a technique related to thematic metamorphosis, idee fixe and leitmotive) (Serenade for Strings by Tchaikovsky; Mendelssohn's Eb string quartet; Beethoven's Symphony No.9),

*Manipulation of sonata form, including mosaic and additive structures. More organic treatment of the form,

*Postludes in the Lieder (especially by Schumann),

*Unity on a large scale: merging of separate movements into a single span (Liszt's Sonata in B minor), larger instrumentations,

*Finishing a minor mode piece in major (from darkness to light): Egmont overture, Symphony No.5 & 9 , Piano Sonatas Opp.90 & 111, and the second act of Fidelio by Beethoven; Schumann's Fourth Symphony; Franck's Symphony in D minor; Brahms' s First Symphony.

*Intense energy and passion, dramatic opera,