Mark Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 A thread for discussion of Jazz/Classical crossover type stuff, I'll begin with a quote from Robin with some great stuff I've started checking out: No, but I know people who use 'orchestral context' with hip chords.HAHAHA...No, I'm not being an donkey. What I mean is, rather than bringing jazz theory to an orchestral approach, many writers bring the orchestral approach to jazz. If that makes any sense. Specifically: Maria Schneider - whom I no longer consider a jazz composer. She's constantly evolving towards a more orchestral approach - i.e. heavy woodwind doubles; programmatic nature of her music; very textural writing, emphasis on colour and timbre, rather than typical jazz nonsense of rhythm and feel. Also, where common writing for large jazz ensembles is about a 50/50, maybe 60/40 split of written vs. improvised material - Maria gets into 80/20, even 90/10 ratios - her pieces are meticulously composed, with spectacular results. It's a very different approach she has, distinct and wholly original - ever more remote from 'jazz' with each new record, she must be heard to be understood. The clips on her website give a good impression - though her pieces (not often less than 10 minutes long) are best absorbed through a full listening. Check out: Allegresse - Hang Gliding (possibly one of the greatest pieces of music of all time, I'm serious. Listen to the clip) Allegresse - Dissolution (a perfect example of her 'orchestral' approach) Concert in the Garden - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinjessome Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 That Brecker record sounds great - will have to track it down. ANYWAY...as I was saying, there's a thick gray area between classical and jazz, you'll find a lot of music that successfully hovers between the two - usually it's from European cats, and more often then not it's jazzers leaning towards classical, rather than the other way around (legit folks too square? I dunno) ... ANYWAY, I know a lot of you are quick to dismiss jazz (or music-with-jazz-like-tendencies) and many classically oriented folks have an irrational fear of jazz in general - but, you just gotta check out the right stuff ...we go way deeper than you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeysinfezzes Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 Hugh Frazer! His Mass in C Minor and his Concerto for Jazz Orchestra. I saw him at the Rex, in Toronto recently. Which was awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinjessome Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Hugh Frazer! His Mass in C Minor and his Concerto for Jazz Orchestra. I saw him at the Rex, in Toronto recently. Which was awesome. Indeed - Hugh's Concerto for Jazz Orchestra & Mass in C Minor is a good example of the collision of stylings...the mass especially for the use of the strings. I do love Cross and Trine though - that bass line kills! I bet it was a great show - was it his Quintet? Was he playing trombone or piano? Whoooowheeee.... Keep in touch - we move to Toronto in late August... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeysinfezzes Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 both man lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Do Shostakovich's jazz suites qualify as jazz? If so, that makes him classical leaning towards jazz.. (yay 300 posts) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted May 22, 2007 Author Share Posted May 22, 2007 Amazon.com: Focus: Music: Stan Getz Stan Getz improvising over a string orchestra. Awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinjessome Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Do Shostakovich's jazz suites qualify as jazz? If so, that makes him classical leaning towards jazz.. I'll have to check those suites out... Some of Charles Ives' stuff has obvious jazz tendencies as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spc1st Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Are you talking about Third Stream stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinjessome Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Are you talking about Third Stream stuff? Maybe. What are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spc1st Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Maybe. What are you talking about? ;) Unspeakables :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinjessome Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Well, I'm talking about hip scraggy like pianist/composer Uri Caine...His adaptations of Mahler and now Mozart have grabbed my attention. Dig: Uri Caine Ensemble Plays Mozart from his website, a great clip - Chris Speed freaking out, listen for a few seconds and you'll instantly recognize the melody...wicked. Dark Flame (Music of G. Mahler) on Amazon.com for samples Dark Flame on Caine's website, good long clip should start right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinjessome Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Neat: ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franzman Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 ANYWAY, I know a lot of you are quick to dismiss jazz (or music-with-jazz-like-tendencies) and many classically oriented folks have an irrational fear of jazz in general - but, you just gotta check out the right stuff ...we go way deeper than you think. They're just jealous because we're (us jazz folks) more popular. :huh: :dry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 They're just jealous because we're (us jazz folks) more popular. :blink: :) Amen, Franzy. Yeah, so the Shostakovich jazz suites were quite nice. But Shostakovich in general is usually pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oboehazzard Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Ravel Piano Concerto in G. :) YouTube - Ravel, Concerto in G (Martha Argerich) - Mov 1: Allegramente Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolifer Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 ANYWAY, I know a lot of you are quick to dismiss jazz (or music-with-jazz-like-tendencies) and many classically oriented folks have an irrational fear of jazz in general - but, you just gotta check out the right stuff ...we go way deeper than you think. "...many classically oriented folks have an irrational fear of jazz in general.." That was me. I always loved the sounds of jazz, but have always been afraid to attempt to compose for it. I know why, so no Freuds needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinjessome Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 "...many classically oriented folks have an irrational fear of jazz in general.."That was me. I always loved the sounds of jazz, but have always been afraid to attempt to compose for it. I know why, so no Freuds needed. I'm glad to see now that you've worked through that. What I was talking about though, are people who dislike jazz without listening to any...ever. People who believe classical is the be all and end all of music. People who hate jazz and have no desire to listen to any, let alone write some - without putting in any effort to try and understand it. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted August 17, 2007 Author Share Posted August 17, 2007 Hmmm. Musical bigotry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oboehazzard Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Jazz is amazing. It's gorgeous. What about Porgy and Bess, Mark? Have you heard any of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted August 17, 2007 Author Share Posted August 17, 2007 :huh: Unspeakables :wub: People who work in the department of mysteries? :huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevemc90 Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 Obviously there's Gershwin...but aside from him check out Keith Jarrett (recommend the Koln Concert, most of his stuff is fully improvised, amazing), Dave Brubeck (studied with Milhaud), Claude Bolling (re. Suite for Flute and Jazz Piano Trio, mix of baroque and jazz), and Mingus' Black Saint And The Sinner Lady (leans more towards jazz, but his classical composition training and love for 20th century classical is definitely there), anything Bill Evans (classically trained in composition, huge impressionist influence)...also there is a jazz violinist named Christian Howes, who I took a couple summer classes with at Berklee, and he and two others did an album called Klazyc, all improvisations on classical stuff (Bach, Ravel, Debussy, Mozart, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katchum Posted September 2, 2007 Share Posted September 2, 2007 Is Allegresse - Hang Gliding composed by Schneider? Because I hear that music all over on TV, radio, music class, some sites and I can't even believe anymore who composed the piece with all those arrangements out there. On topic: I'd say Kapustin fits the jazz - classical approach very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinjessome Posted September 2, 2007 Share Posted September 2, 2007 Is Allegresse - Hang Gliding composed by Schneider? Because I hear that music all over on TV, radio, music class, some sites and I can't even believe anymore who composed the piece with all those arrangements out there. I doubt you're hearing Hang Gliding on tv/radio/websites. It was composed by Maria Schneider, and there's only the one arrangement I'm aware of. Indeed, I doubt anyone else could write anything like it. ...check out Keith Jarrett (recommend the Koln Concert, most of his stuff is fully improvised, amazing)... I'd also disagree that most of Keith's stuff is "fully improvised". ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevemc90 Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 I'd also disagree that most of Keith's stuff is "fully improvised". :) his solo concerts, which over the years have been publicized as fully improvised performances, are what he is most known and at times notorious for Keith Jarrett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia a good overview Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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