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Hello! (I came here from @Lithl's tag. Thank you! Btw I am listening to Saint Saens Concerto 5! It's great. You should try too!) So I don't believe you need any music theory to start composing, but to get better, and faster at the 'getting better', you do need music theory. I am technically a self-taught composer. I only started music theory lessons last year. I literally just write what I think would sound good. Here is a sample. Idea pops into brain during important test. (I am thirteen so I am still in school) I finish writing the test but idea is still there. I finish the rest of the day without forgetting the idea. I forget it on the way home. I re-remember it after like 5 hours. I go on musescore and write it. And just pay attention to a few stuff. Try to prevent parallel motion. Only later I was taught this was actually theory, but I first came up with this when I was seven. Voice leading! Very important. Same as the one before, but I came up with this when I was six. Try to break the rules 1 and 2 effectively. Got it? It is simple. Music composition is like a huge field, something like 内蒙古. You start from different places and go to different places. You do whatever you want. Whatever you think works. You will gain self-consciousness gradually and therefore improve. When I was nine, I thought I was good at composition. Now looking back, although still better than my classmates', it is nothing compared to my work now and some of the fellows on this site, YC. I see you are new, and that's not a problem, and by your state right now, it seems like you are very interested in composition. Good news! That's the first step to become a good composer or good anything. You are intrigued by it. When I first joined, this is what @Thatguy v2.0 said to me not long after I joined. Thank you once again, @Thatguy v2.0!!! @Woofi_9 Good luck! P.S. @Lithl Your reviews are not bad, they are great! Although it may not be backed up with music theory, it gives a listener's thought on the music. Very important. -TristanTheTristan

Hello I agree about the glockenspiel – it’s very, very piercing. So it should be reserved for moments of great brilliance or when the whole orchestra is playing at full volume. Or used very sparingly. But there’s one thing I’d like to mention. And that is that, for me, using a set of notes like this isn’t limiting at all. The possibilities offered by using something like this are limitless. It’s simply a framework to build upon, just like a major or minor mode, or a thousand other things.

This is very beautiful music, I do have to say. Thanks greatly for sharing it with us. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ One thing I will caution is: be careful that you don't treat the Viola as a 'failed Violin'. Throughout the entire composition, I already got that a Violin III and IV can basically substitute for Viola I and II. The only two measures that (barely) kept this from happening is meas. 35-36 (Meas. 35+37 for Viola II), where Violas only visit F3 and F#3 pitches right below Open-G; and then ever goes down to an E3 ONE time throughout the entire movement. The C-string never gets visited again. Furthermore, the motif's/phrases containing these quick, evanescent C-String usages could easily be taken 8va. Once that is done, Viola... er... Voila! You got yourself a Violin III and Violin IV line. (Similarly, I caution choral composers to remember that an Alto is not the lack of a Soprano voice. Altos have their own meaningful and useful range and rich intonation. Many to most Altos may have accepted their 'lazy' Soprano-supporter's role; where all women share the exact same lowest note in the composition, which is either middle-C or a few semitones below, while Sopranos' highest pitch sores a P4 to as much as an 8v above Altos' highest pitch. This may be a choral issue, but I think it absolutely bares relevant mentioning here; seeing the parallel drawn that often makes this a shared concern between the vocal and string world.) (Also, regarding taking up the few F's and E 8va, I get the counter-argument that this may potentially muddy the meaningful motions of your intended counterpoint. This muddying, as I observe, is fairly minimum and mostly unnoticeable. And, the motions that may result in hypothetically putting these up 8va have already been noted in other locations in the score; perhaps as little as just a few beats later.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This doesn't take away from the lush and organic contours you used; I meant it fully and transparently when I say this is beautiful music that I relate to nicely. Still, this was one concern that completely jutted out to me.

Hello, I'm not really sure what to say about an improvisation...which sort of exists as this beautiful in between with live performance/virtuosity and composition. Though both takes sound similar. So is it more of an improvisation on something you have already written? But yeah, very jazzy. It gets intense at times. You got some nice "licks" that you revert to at times. Comes across as a very experienced musician. Once again, not sure what else to say. I like that you don't always keep the pedal down. It sounds very smooth, not really like an improvisation, but also sounds pretty free flowing. You play the notes with confidence, even the "wrong" ones. But you probably already know that. I like the 0:32 minute thing that you play on take 2 most. The little glissando thing around 1:40/1:50 is nice too, on the take 2. I enjoyed listening to both takes, thanks for sharing.

You had me a Jeremy Soule (LOVE "Far Horizons". That Horn solo... 🤤)

Welcome all. I'm back with more of Frank Bridge's "Fairy Tale". This movement was really fun to orchestrate! I thought tuba and contrabassoon would be good choices for an ogre. Hope you enjoy. Bridge - A Fairy Tale 2. The Ogre (orchestration) #14.mp3 Bridge - A Fairy Tale 2. The Ogre (orchestration) #14.pdf

WHAT. ARE YOU DOING. IN MY SWAMP!? Anyway. No, this is a very interesting submission. I have nothing that particularly sticks out at me that requires much critique. I feel you've ecapsulated what you sought out to, and the instrumentation, syncopated, percussive feel of the piece is spot on for the intent. Do it again, except add more cowbell, next time (I kid, I kid 🤣)

Hi Luis. It's good to limit yourself in this way, as it forces you to be creative, and I think you've pulled it off well. I've found the Glockenspiel quite hard to use, as it's so metallic, it can really stick out. Here I think it works well though. The only thing I would say, is that you rarely, if ever, see chords in the glock. That's because they're difficult to perceive in such a high register. (I did use some in my latest orchestration; but I've been told it's a bad idea.)

@CrystalCanon Thanks for listening; I'm glad you liked it. This set of notes is very small—just four—but I saw it in a piece by Schoenberg and wanted to experiment with it. It’s hard to point out all the relationships in this short piece, but practically everything is derived from that set. Horizontal sequences appear, as well as vertical chords—rotated, inverted, and so on. I think the genesis of these pieces is like that of all others: planning a structure, marking the cadences, and planning the climactic moments, as well as the moments of tension and repose. From the previous version for solo piano:

For 13 years old, your command of the english language is excellent!. 🙌

Don’t be silly! This kind of collaboration is what makes it both interesting and enjoyable! This was my first work of this nature so it’s all very helpful. I’ll play around with your suggestion. Of course, I feel it offers opportunities for further development.

Stumbled across this video tonight. AI’s version is actually far better than I had expected. In that respect, I’m impressed. But it is soulless, bringing to mind the first movement to Goreki’s symphony no 3, in which he puts to music the cold, banal and machinations of the Third Reich. It also goes without saying the human fugue is first rate. Eager to hear other people’s thoughts.

piano improvisation .mp3 improv take 2.mp3

thank you! I had already decided where the improv would begin and end, the differences are how i depart from the beginning and arrive to the ending There were a few things i did in take 1 that i liked so i repeated in take 2, but all the differences between the two were improvisations since I'm not an extremely skilled improvisor there is still a buffer between idea and execution, things that i would probably do differently if it were a composition (the 'wrong' notes) ; so it was mostly just about translating ideas and emotion in real time no matter how how 'good' it sounded The thing i played at 0:32 of take 2 was basically the melody of wet hands from minecraft.. but with major seventh dissonances a couple octaves up, an effect i got from messiaen's la colombe

Really thanks for your considerable feedback.

Please take a listen to this Rondo I composed. I wanted to capture some early-Romantic fire with this one, and I hope you enjoy! Beethoven was looking over my shoulder the whole time I wrote this, so this music definitely will not make any kind of hyper-modern statements. Though maybe there's a touch of modern in there, especially the middle theme. I appreciate any and all feedback! 3. Rondo.mp3 03 Rondo.pdf

Hello, I've listened to this one twice as I type this. It's starts off very fast paced and it feels like there is so much thrown at the listener. It does sound good initially to my ears, but sort of becomes a barrage of notes at some point (which I want to be clear, sounds good...just feels a bit discombobulating). I think that a real life recording could potentially add clarity to what the piece is trying to accomplish. I guess I'm sort of the opposite of you...I could never write music only via musical notation. Whereas I guess you wrote it all by pen! That's pretty darn awesome if you ask me. I mean, I guess what I am saying is that listening to your music sort of feels like watching a Zack Snider movie. There are these really nice moments that happen in the music, but I struggle to hear the bigger picture if that makes sense. The moments are nice though and it's an overall pleasant experience. (I like Zack Snider movies). Once again...it's possible that having a life performer could bring out some of the ideas in your piece. Also, the middle section is reaaaally weird (in the context of the overall piece). And you obviously are aware of this based on your intro for the piece. There are some really nice tender moments in the middle section of the piece too. As I finish typing this...I've listened to it 3 times. It gets better with each listen...I think I can hear the ideas a bit better as I listen to it more! And after 3 times, I am starting to see the little variations when the main theme returns each time. So there ya go. It seems entirely possible that your music requires a few listens to really get into it. And from my point of view, your music is intriguing enough that I wanted to listen to it more than once :)

Hi. I have Adhd and Autism. -TristanTheTristan

Good evening, Many of you know me as a die hard zealot of the common practice period. But I have been experimenting recently with model / non-functional harmony. My reason for this centre largely on my admiration for the music of Jeremy Soule (famous as the composer of the video game series 'Elder Scrolls'), the film music of Howard Shore (e.g. LOTR) as well as my general appreciation of minimalism (Max Richter, for example). In many respects the theoretical basis of modal and non-functional harmony could not be more different - even sacrilegious - compared with CCP given the more 'liberal' approach to voice leading. For example, there is often an appetite for omitting the third of a chord for the effect it produces can be aligned with the 'scene' being supported (e.g. inducing a feeling of emptiness and mystery) as well as usage of consecutive 5ths to produce an 'archaic' style of voice (which could work if the scene involves exploration of a dark, ancient ruin, for example). Thus, with this type of music, what matters is less the 'rules' than the effect the writing produces. This has fascinated me. Although my own background, in which many of these 'rules have been embedded into my consciousness, taking this different approach to music has its challenges. It is all too tempting to revert to the voice leading that I know best. But it doesn't necessarily need to be one or the other... perhaps I can combine the two approaches. So I share with you my first serious attempt at this style. A few notes on my approach: In the first half, I prioritize establishing a tonal centre around C & G. The E is intentionally omitted to create tonal ambiguity - are we in C minor or C major? The first violin opens with a central motif that I later manipulate and exchange between the different voices at various pitches. This motif applies chromaticism that further adds mystery to the tonal centre Resolutions are avoided in a traditional sense: the cadence may end on an inversion without the third. Only towards the end of the piece do I start to apply resolutions but not without several evasions, before finishing with a compound cadence that marks the first and only moment with a complete cadence. Naturally I'd like to hear your thoughts. What do you feel? Also - those experienced in this type of music - what could I have done better? With thanks, Markus Weariness.mp3 Weariness.pdf

A very difficult and sensitive topic! Many of us here - based on many conversations - also appear to experience perfectionism. It will vary to what extent that impedes productivity, but the more problematic and chronic manifestations tend to lean towards the OCD spectrum. And quite often that might be rooted in some kind of childhood trauma. I do feel at times that most of us are mad here. Lots of obsessive types around - including myself 😅🤭😆

Thank you!

That’s great, thanks for sharing. I’m also largely self taught with some limited formal guidance here and there. You play the piano, right? I suggest that you compose something like this for piano but at your practical skill level; and then you can play it for us. I did wondering during my listening about the playability of it. Lastly, there are some aspects of your diminution in the rondo theme that I felt unnecessary. If you don’t mind, i’ll have a play around with your theme later at some point to illustrate my point.

Hello @Luis Hernández! It’s a wonderful piece—kind of reminds me of Schoenberg’s Op. 16. It’s difficult to comment on the structure of the piece as I’m just starting to work with pitch class sets. Can you explain a little further your thought/creative process when using them? How strict/free was your treatment of the 4-4 set in this piece? Is all of the material derived from it? I really like the sense of orchestral color, and those delicate transitions between dynamics. Great work!

@Markus Boyd Thanks for your feedback! Yes it does sound a bit Slavic in certain areas. No I can’t play it myself sadly. Wish I could! For this piece my approach was to be true to the rondo form, to play around within that framework. My training is very limited, mostly self taught. I’ve read a lot about composition and taken some theory classes, but never had a composition teacher per se. Cheers!

Yes, I have issues with bipolar disorder. It typically manifests in longer depressive states than manic ones. I find that I do most of my best writing during those, whereas in the manic episodes my mind is too jumbled to come up with ideas. I’ve also noticed that when in those depressive periods, my music actually tends to be less dissonant. While I usually write more dissonant pieces when I’m feeling more normal.

What I also didn't notice at first is the parallel 4ths between Violin 2 and Viola! I played around with that idea once again in this following version. Let me know if you want me to stop! I don't mean to take too many creative liberties with your music. AncientRuinMB2.mp3

Sounds Slavic in places - I’m guessing that speaks of your own heritage? Not hearing much Beethoven tbh Being honest, I found it all very difficult to follow. The tonal (or lack of) approach is bewildering for you leave little that is memorable. Perhaps it is partially due to the midi sound set you’re using. Is it something you can play yourself? Also I struggle to hear the resemblance between your ideas (eg how you developed your ideas). What’s your approach to composition? What is your training?

@PeterthePapercomPoser I think it’s a very good solution. Although there is a descending fourth interval in the bass (entirely associated with functional harmony), the modal character is very much present due to the D flat and the absence of the leading tone (B flat instead). You have to bear in mind that introducing an entirely foreign element is bound to strike the listener as odd. Turn it round: imagine a piece in C major that ends with a Locrian or Lydian cadence… It wouldn’t sound right. There are loads of pop songs that are modal—some 100 per cent so—and they’ve been ‘slipped past’ us as if it were nothing out of the ordinary. For example, ‘Stayin’ Alive’ (Bee Gees) is in the Dorian mode.

Hello. A super interesting topic that could go a long way.... First of all, let me say that your short piece sounds very beautiful and I love it. I would only change one thing, which I will comment on later. I’m definitely going to say it here: I consider myself quite deeply involved in these matters of modality; in fact, my own curiosity led me to write a mini-manual where I explain how to develop musical systems from a scale-mode (any of the hundreds out there). The first thing to point out is that I think it’s a mistake to compare modal systems with tonal ones (and these with atonal ones). We need to forget about voice leading, 'forbidden' parallels, etc.... Modal music predates tonal music by more than a thousand years, and it didn't need any comparison. It must be understood as a horizontal, melodic system where there are no notes to avoid, and where certain colors (characteristic notes of the mode) are highlighted. The fact that we use chords in modal harmony today is a much later 'construct' in which the concept of the triad-chord is applied to the vertical coincidence of melodic lines in modal music. That is how harmony was born... From our perspective, since we are already familiar with functional-tonal harmony (which has thoroughly saturated our brains), we can approach a composition from an extremely wide spectrum. You can be purely modal, purely tonal, or a varying mix of both. Anything goes. In your composition, and based on your comments, one can sense a hesitation that comes and goes, which is more conceptual than musical, since the piece is completely valid and effective. But let me comment: the beginning establishes a C-G drone... typical modal style. It doesn't matter that you haven't introduced the third. The very moment the first Db note sounds on the violin, you are defining some mode of C Phrygian. In fact, it is a note that is heard at many points. If you were strictly following C Phrygian, the notes would be C, Db, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb.... However, in measure 4, we see an E natural in the bass, then an F#... These can be interpreted as approaches to the following notes they resolve to... A typical tonal concept. In tonal music, notes resolve; in modal music, they don't—they are there to provide color. You want to use notes outside a scale-mode? There is no problem at all. It's just like using chromatic notes in a tonal composition. The problem is that if you want to maintain the color, the specific flavor of a mode, you have to be careful not to use tonal-functional resources that easily destroy that 'modal framework'. And that is what happens at the end of the composition, where there is a ii - V - I pattern ending in C major, which, for me, cancels out everything that came before. I insist that one can do whatever they want when composing. But our ears are so contaminated by tonal music that this progression ending in a perfect cadence G - C.... takes you right back to any period of the common practice. Especially the B-C..... That sounds like leading tone-tonic anywhere. But like I said: very beautiful music.

First time writing a piece for this many parts. Not sure if I did a good job. I've played all these instruments before so that gave me some confidence, but I would like some feedback. Thank you for listening! Woodwind Quartet Sheet Music for Flute, Oboe, Bassoon, Clarinet other (Woodwind Quartet) | MuseScore.com Edit: I went to edit the mp3 and now a wrong note is playing in measure 40 for some reason that isn't there in the score... Woodwind Quartet.mp3

Hello! I present to you guys my Second Ballo Ongaro, for Strings, Basso continuo and Cornettos. The first Ballo Ongaro i made was roughly in the style of Danischer Simplicimus, wich has a collection of instrumental and vocal music that tries to mimic various styles around europe at his time (Even though most of them were not even close to what it actually sounded like). So in this one i decided to give it a bit of my own style, but still with some details from Simplicimus, wich are mainly the use of a lot of dotted note figures and short phrases. I hope you enjoy! LOB 114 Il Secondo Ballo Ongaro.mp3