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Hello, It's been a blast listening to all your pieces for the past few weeks. I joined this forum many years ago when I was a "young composer". Writing music has always been a hobby of mine, though I am no longer a "young composer". I have a career, I have a family and I have kids. So, this is a song about my two boys. I wrote a set of 14 piano pieces for my kids meant to be played as a set last year. I've been working on getting the sheets engraved nicely and making some nice recordings at home on a grand piano. This one is called Kid's Perfect. It's a bit of a play on words I guess. The idea behind this piece is that I'm just messing around with perfect fifths. The twist is that I challenged myself to only play 6 sequential perfect fifth notes in any bar/phrase. So, it all starts with FCGDAE, or the first 6 notes of the C major scale rearranged, or a D minor 11 chord. I guess it's all the same thing in some ways. But I try to make it a bit more interesting later on. Thanks for listening, and let me know what you guys think. If you crank the volume up, you get to hear the rich harmonics that resonate in the piano sound board. https://youtu.be/U4IetXzY2Us

OK. They’re different things. I don’t think these systems can be compared because their foundations are very different. That doesn’t prevent them from being used in combination or simultaneously. What I said in my previous message applies to anything in music. If you introduce something completely unrelated to what’s playing—suddenly—and it doesn’t reappear… it will be perceived as a mistake. That’s why, if I were to do something like that (and I know I’ve done it many times—after all, modal exchange in tonal harmony is based on this very principle), I would combine both systems as the piece unfolds, so that it doesn’t sound strange. Repetition in music gives a piece familiarity, coherence, and memorability. Another way to do this—though I think it goes beyond what you’re aiming for, since it sounds much more radical—is what was common in Bartók’s music: polymodal chromaticism. That is, writing simultaneously in two modes. One can be tonal and functional, and the other can be non-tonal. Here: BARTÓK: CROMATICISMO POLIMODAL

I actually thought that was the kind of thing you wanted to express in this final section. And yes, I think that’s a good idea. Since pieces in this genre tend to be fluid—often lacking a definitive, settled ending—pulling that off would result in a unique and compelling work. That said, as it stands now, it does feel a bit abrupt. So, perhaps it would be best to use that final part as a hub to introduce a melody and bring the piece to a tonal conclusion? I’m not well-versed in music theory myself, so Luis's perspective is definitely the one to go by. I did try to quickly experiment with some ideas earlier—just for five minutes, as I’m quite busy—but it didn't work out. It seems like achieving a tonal ending is going to be difficult. Honestly, I do not know, sorry. As you know, various techniques can be employed—such as layering, fading out, or concluding in a way that leaves a lingering resonance that is incredibly fluid yet somehow unsettled. Or you can develop that fluidity to a bigger volume and suddenly turn it off. Since this type of music is fluid, the easiest way I can come up with is considering which instrument to use. If you use a triangle or something like that, you probably won't be able to give a rational tonal finale, but you would be able to maintain the atmosphere with a tonal end. Have you kindly already shared it? If there are any other examples, I would love for you to share them as well :) Best, Lithl. bad.mp3

@Grant Weep, this is so lovely. The reverb of the piano sound is beautiful, as are the beautiful chords. Sometimes it sounds jazzy, reminiscent of Bill Evans, and I felt a sparkling quality in the sound. I suppose these pieces for your kids are going to be very personal and deep-seated, meaningful works for you. To me, it felt like a calm lake, bringing a sense of nostalgia with many different aspects. Finally, looking at your profile and seeing that you joined the Young Composers Forum when you were still young, and now you have a family, really warmed my heart. I sincerely hope that you and your entire family have a wonderful family life. Best, Lithl.

Hello, everyone, I hope you’re all doing well. After quite a long time, I’d like to introduce one of my new compositions to you. It’s called “Duo for violin and cello.” It’s not exactly easy to listen to, but I believe some of you might enjoy it. Unfortunately, I’m a poor student, so I can’t afford to pay live performers, that’s why the recording was once again made using VSTs, but it’s better than nothing :) I’d appreciate any comments. Thank you very much.

@PeterthePapercomPoser I think it’s a very good solution. Although there is a descending fourth interval in the bass (entirely associated with functional harmony), the modal character is very much present due to the D flat and the absence of the leading tone (B flat instead). You have to bear in mind that introducing an entirely foreign element is bound to strike the listener as odd. Turn it round: imagine a piece in C major that ends with a Locrian or Lydian cadence… It wouldn’t sound right. There are loads of pop songs that are modal—some 100 per cent so—and they’ve been ‘slipped past’ us as if it were nothing out of the ordinary. For example, ‘Stayin’ Alive’ (Bee Gees) is in the Dorian mode.

Hey @Markus Boyd ! I thought I would just add my 2¢ with regards to the question of how to end your piece. There are lots of options! I don't recommend a fadeout since it would be the cheapest and easiest. I personally also don't hear your current ending as a mistake. The only thing that's a bit out of character for the rest of the piece is the picardy third itself. It you simply changed that E natural to an Eb at the end, it would go a long way towards remedying the problem. I have taken the liberty of making my own version of your ending based on @Luis Hernández 's suggestion of using a kind of Phrygian cadence: AncientRuinMB.mp3

I do appreciate you saying that we should not compare tonal and modal music; for each are trying to very different things. I’m genuinely interested, though, in ways to combine the two…

@Lithl I agree with your comments. I had considered lengthening the opening, actually. I couldn’t quite pull it off but there must be an effective way to extend the idea. It’s interesting that you and @Luis Hernández expressed disengagement with the ending, that is the first and only genuine tonal cadence. My rationale was an attempt to somehow merge the tonal and modal into a simple and relatable narrative: anguish first, uncertainty in direction that follows, before a somber finish with a picardie third cadence that offers some form of renewal. That was the concept, anyway. I can certainly play around with it more, but i have a question… If a tonal conclusion is not satisfactory for this type of music, where the expectation is perhaps sustain ambiguity above all, how should it end? I am aware of layering technique in this genre, where essentially in the latter sections the music just falls away - disintegrates if you will - as a collapse. It leaves not resolution but a lingering unease. In the ‘more’ tonal music of Jeremy Soule, he sometimes ends the music with a central motif but with ‘messy harmony’ with ‘sonorities’ that correspond not with the harmony but contribute towards a lush atmosphere that sounds beautiful but does not make much logical sense. I’ll share it, if you want to hear.