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Thank you all for the feedback! The past couple of days have been busy, so I’m only just getting around to responding. On the choice of key @Luis Hernández I did consider transposing the piece to E minor to make it more comfortable for the musicians. Ultimately, I decided against it because I think the key contributes to the harmonic “color”—something that becomes even more significant in orchestration. Speaking from a string player’s perspective, the reduced resonance from open strings and the frequent need for vibrato help reinforce the piece’s somber, melancholic mood. There are also contrasting sections that modulate to more string-friendly keys, such as G major. In those passages, I use open strings and natural harmonics to make the contrast more pronounced. @Alex Weidmann , speaking as a semi-professional string player, I’d say it’s definitely playable. That said, it’s an uncommon orchestral key and creates plenty of intonation challenges for the ensemble. I can also confirm from experience that orchestral players generally aren’t too thrilled when they see a key signature with five or more flats or sharps! Orchestration choices Thank you for the detailed feedback, @Luis Hernández I agree that I may have written the English horn parts a little too high in places. Honestly, if I’d had the option, I might have scored the piece for two English horn players, since the instrument’s tone and timbre fit the atmosphere so well. Strangely, I’ve never been especially fond of writing two oboe parts—but maybe that’s just me. You’re probably right about bars 52–53. My intention was to thin out the upper octaves so that the viola-and-cello octave line would come through more clearly, with the upper voices adding a kind of “shine” to it. In a live performance, I think it could work reasonably well, depending on the strength of the flute players. I’ve been using Dorico since Finale went bust. I used its automatic condensing feature for this score, but I’m not always happy with the choices it makes. I usually go back and manually condense or uncondense the parts, but I didn’t have time to do that for this piece.

OK I think this is the best reason for maintaining the key. In other words, doing so with that conscious intention, as in the examples from the repertoire. I use Dorico too, but I’ve been using it ever since version 1 came out. I used to use Finale as well, but I never liked it, so I switched. I now consider myself an ‘expert’ in quite a few areas, though not so much in others because they don’t interest me. The condensing feature is brilliant, but sometimes you drive yourself mad trying to work out why something hasn’t been condensed. The programme still has some bugs in this respect. Best regards.

Hello.... I’ve finally managed to listen to the whole piece. I’m not going to make any technical comments or anything like that, as there are people of a much higher calibre who’ve already done so. I’ll just say that I really liked it. I think you have a powerful vision of what modern, chromatic counterpoint can be. Everything fits together perfectly and the piece never gives the slightest hint of being boring. What’s more, it’s a real pleasure to see such a clear score. Well done.

Avey Tare & Panda Bear - Alvin Row ignore the first 2 minutes of this song

I don’t think that you—as a composer at this level, as here at the YCF—should try too hard to develop a personal style, since it seems impossible to me to even intend to do so; for, on the one hand, “almost everything” already exists in terms of musical forms, systems, and languages, and on the other hand—even if one of us were the absolute genius who shapes and influences an entire era—he would unfortunately never live to see it, since such groundbreaking developments are usually only recognized decades or even centuries after the composer’s death. With that said, one should not bother much about it, since a personal musical language actually develops almost automatically as long as your composition exercises and works aren’t too “random,” you follow a consistent approach in your work, and try to incorporate only a few influences from different musical styles or languages into your next piece, rather than imitating a specific style in one piece and then switching to the style of a completely different composer or era in the next. After a year of being a member here on the forum and participating in three competitions or events, I think, I could identify some composers based on their “personal style”—for example (this is a very arbitrary list and by no means exhaustive …): @UncleRed99 – famous for the „warmth“ in its pieces, its chord progression and beautiful utilization of woodwinds. @Fruit hunter – very interesting percussion pieces. @Fugax Contrapunctus – everything about fugues and canons in an extremely thorough, intellectual (and even theoretical) way. @HoYin Cheung – mostly atonal pieces, especially for strings. @L.S Barros – influenced by renaissance and baroque, often utilizing brass ensembles and perhaps myself – counterpoint composition technique, voice leading, and mixed with influences from the 20th century, always starting as piano piece, but more and more orchestration examples ... Maybe for one of the next contests, we could make the submissions anonymous and award badges to the reviewers who correctly guess the most composers… (perhaps a silly idea).

on pastel skies was “commissioned” (more in this case called for) by the young composers 2026 summer competition fit this team after a poem about the serene atmosphere of the Midsummer afternoon So, on a bright summer day it shall be: The great sun, my partner in joy, Shall make, amid the satin and the silk, Your dear beauty lovelier still; The sky, all blue, like a tall canopy, Shall quiver sumptuously in the long folds Above our two happy brows, grown pale With pleasure and expectancy; And when evening comes, the breeze shall be soft And play caressingly about your veils, And the peaceful stars looking down Shall smile benevolently on man and wife. The gestation of this piece (initial thought, even before the entry of the first note) was an image of a dreamy Florida sunset over the Gulf of Mexico with this image the piece will transport you to another dimension of into the pastel pink, orange, and red opalescent skies instrumentation xylophone (doubling on glockenspiel and crotales, /w large zill bell attachment vibraphone I /w sus and Z.bell and dull metallic object (something like a Burma bell) vibraphone II /w sus and Z.bell and dull metallic object (something like a Burma bell) Marimba I /w sus and temple blocks Marimba II /w Chimes, sus and temple blocks and large, vibrating drum ( tom or surdo ect.) On Pastel Skies.mp3 On Pastel Skies.pdf

The main thing I struggle with when writing art song, is that the singer has a limited range. I think in art song it is very important to have a harmonic idea of your poems first. Then creating a melody around that. The piano does 90% of the work and the voice should get the credit. As a singer, I truly think the best art song has most phrases within the range of a 5th. From phrase to phrase you can shift this around, but the more rangey it gets, the needlessly difficult it gets. If the poem is contemplative I would hold this as a strong guideline. But if it's angry, or disjunt, maybe not worry so much. This isn't to say that anything will be bad if written this way, but it makes it harder to execute. Also do you have a baritone in mind? Here is a piece that conveys what I think is important: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeXlTfC7MVM Most of the phrases are quite narrow for the voice, this allows the voice to navigate their difficult "passagios" Also notice how as the piece gets more intense, so does the range. And pay attention to how softly the pianist is playing throughout. It should be noted that this is a VERY difficult piece for voice. Specifically the closer you get to the end. Long phrases, short breaths, extensive range, lots of dynamic variety and high soft singing. The only reason its popular is because its so pretty. However the piece is subjected to pretty much only professional singers because of its difficulty. German Lied, is much more text driven. Generally a German Lied cycle has a lot of variety and color changes, as it was expected back then. So often times in a cylcle, piece are exaggerated in their color as much as possible. Sometimes I get annoyed at German lieder for not staying in the moment long enough, in attempt to create variety, but they are the world famous composers and I serve food to people. So getting into tonality. https://youtu.be/gHGYmV0frnw?si=H3MTNlnYh6iqUtvM Previn is always a favorite example of mine. Its tonal, but never the same tone. Listen to how the piano completely shifts from texture to texture in order to convey emotions, and prepares the next phrase. This poem is very complex, but the piano and voice work together to make it fathomable. Previn switches from between three primary textures, wide complex chords, high dissonant/poignant chords, and flourishes. Each represents a specific feeling. I think the wide chords express the "setting" of the poem, the natural feel. These are about 50% of the piece. The high dissonant chords have a feeling disappointment, while the flourishes express child-like hope. Also worth noting, this piece is really hard to sing. He never "preps" the singer with a pitch, making it incredibly difficult to find a pitch, even a augmented 2nd is difficult to find. I'm not big into non-tonal music so I can't help you much in that realm, but I think look at berg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I_7OHTr400 He's just my favorite in the not-tonal world. As someone who has sung a few atonal works, and others on the cusp, my main ask is: please make exceptions to your tonal rules, to allow the words to have their impact. Art song exists to create the worlds in which poetry exists. If the poem has to be forced by the singer, it is not a good art song.

Hi everyone, This is my latest piano composition that I wrote. I'm very happy with how it turned out. Hope you enjoy listening!

A short study for string quartet composed by the sea this morning Regards, Marc 01 - Conducteur - Etude pour quatuor à cordes n°8.pdf Etude pour quatuor à cordes n°8.mp3

Hello @SergeOfArniVillage, That is an exciting post and really a „project“ with a bunch of pieces worth to be reviewed! So, first, to get an overview, I have taken a first look at the scores to see how the preludes are organized. Prelude No. 1 (I) – C major (but ends in C sharp!) Prelude No. 2 (II) – A minor Prelude No. 3 (III) – G major or E minor Prelude No. 4 (V) – D major (but ends in E?) Prelude No. 5 (VI) – B minor Prelude No. 6 (VII) – A major Prelude No. 7 (VIII) – F sharp minor (but ends?) Prelude No. 8 (IX) – E major (but ends with five flats?) Prelude No. 9 (XI) – B major Prelude No. 10 (X) – C sharp minor Very interesting, the tonality of the pieces is not as obvious in every case, but I suspect, that the preludes are intended to be all in a different key and organized around the circle of fifth (the same way as Chopin’s 24 preludes or Shostakovich’s 24 preludes and fugues - the roman numbers I inserted above were the numbering according to that scheme) and therefore my first question, do you plan to complete the cycle to all 24 pieces/keys? Now, I’m going to listen the single pieces. Prelude No. 1 Yes, it starts slowly with a C major chord, but immediately asks three consecutive harmonic „questions“. They are developed further until a climax in fortissimo but retain unanswered with a finishing C#m(add9) chord. A great overture which makes curious what will happen next, after the curtain rises. Prelude No. 2 The overture continues! But now there is more movement, as the heavy chords are accompanied by driving sixteenth notes. Prelude No. 3 Although it begins in G major, I am now certain that this is the E minor prelude. And that makes sense, because it provides the first moment of calm in the cycle. With that in mind, I’m certain you should insert another piece (between No. 2 and No. 3) in G major—as a “heroic opening to the opera”—following the first two “introductory” pieces, which have built up tension that now needs to be resolved. Prelude No. 4 Now it gets louder again. The prelude reminds me somewhat at Shostakovich’s prelude No. 6 in B minor from its op. 87. However, you interestingly achieved the feeling of a „French overture“ not by double dotted notes but only by accentuating and phrasing your semiquavers! Just now – after 100 bars - I had the impression that it could become somewhat too repetitive, but you’ve presented the right answer to that feeling with your surprisingly ending of the piece with „staccatissimo strikes“ in mm. 101-103 and unexpected resolving to Em7. Prelude No. 5 As surprising the former prelude ends, the new one starts in its opening six measures. But now starts the fun! (More than) an entire bar in rest, and than we have a ragtime which continues to change into a „free jazz“! I really enjoyed your „walking bass“ whereas I really could imagine a Jazz trio on the stage (with piano, double bass and drums). A fantastic piece, perhaps my favorite from the ten ones. Prelude No. 6 Calming down with the A major prelude with the opening F doublesharp diminished 7th chords. And even more in the Adagio section with its „ethereal mood“. But the calm is deceptive as the drama begins in bar 33 (or even earlier with the first fortissimo in bar 28). Interesting contrasts throughout the entire piece as well as another surprising ending, as the finally reached A major chord is „disturbed“ or „spiced“ by an A sharp! Prelude No. 7 A good companion with the previous one, both share the contrast between „drama“ and „ethereal feeling“, but this one in a somewhat more „pleasant“ way. The combination of bass-heavy chords and pearl-like runs in the higher register lends the piece a certain beauty despite its dissonances. The deceptive „endings“ (in mm. 41) and the rests (in mm. 18-19) arise a sense of tension and curiosity about what will happen next. Prelude No. 8 Now we are back in a realm which I would describe as „Jazz“ (in a wider sense). Thriving rhythms and syncopation paired with complex chords. It somewhat reminds me at the brilliant preludes (and fugues) or concert etudes of Nikolai Kapustin, the famous Jazz-pianist-composer. Haha, and in mm. 53-53 the chords repeated eight times (from ff to fff) remind me at the famous eightfold repeated ninth in the left hand of measure 35 of Bach’s B major Prelude from WTC2 (BWV 892), so that we have even a reference there. Prelude No. 10 I changed the listening order, since in my imagination to follow the circle of fifth as arrangement scheme, we should now come to C sharp minor: Although the prelude features various, contrasting textural means, such as heavy chords, arpeggio runs and triplets, the „harmonic kaleidoscope“ of the previous preludes is now calmed down to a more tonal approach (as I see no accidentals at the ultimate chord, while being towered by a ninth). Prelude No. 9 The cycle (so far) ends with a gentle or tranquil piece with pleasant – and sometimes dissonant – chords, thus finishing the arch to the Prelude No. 1. But the curiosity for more prevails: After the expected ending in B major (over a pedal tone), you could not hesitate to create suspense or tension with the ultimate chord which leads us to the (possibly) next piece in G sharp (minor) ... Final words. It was a fun to take a closer look and to listen at your preludes and I’m very curious if that cycle would be continued – especially as my „project“ (it is somewhat a „life-time project“) is to compose 24 preludes and fugues (fortunately more than the half is already accomplished). My thoughts or „review“ is merely subjective, and I did not analyze the scores thoroughly to „find nitpicks“. The only thing I discovered is that there were some notes I am not able (or willing) to read due to the amount of ledger lines … Great work! Wieland

I'll upload at main text. Really ty.

It's fine I get it. Get it ready soon! 😁

Deleted. Really sorry. Sounds so rough is why I deleted. I Don't know how I can deal DAW well...

Have you made it private or deleted it?

in my opinion butterfly lovers violin concerto is really underrated and so is chopin nocturne in c# minor or maybe theyre not that underrated idk

Oh, no not at all. I believe I use them well, within good context of the phrasing. If you have a different opinion of it, based on the score I have in this post (Which I am about to update after publishing this reply), I'd be happy to hear it. Any level of feedback is a chance to improve for the future :)

@Wieland Handke I feel noticed. 😁 And nah-nah-nah-booo-booo he listed me fiiiiirrsst 😝

Hello @Alex Weidmann , this post is a bit „off topic“, I wanted to respond to your yesterday’s post „Drozdov - Au Tombeau De Rachmaninoff (orchestration)“, which has now disappeared (for good reasons). But the “internet” never forgets (I, fortunately had the page still open ... 🤪), so I can quote one of your lines: „I'm totally hooked on orchestration now. You enter notes from a score, like a recipe, and something magical comes out! And it's in a form no one's ever heard before. What could be better than that?„ Yes, that’s been my experience too, that - while it does take a lot of effort to expand a piano piece (let’s say with four or six voices) to an entire orchestra which literally has more than 30 „tracks“ that can be used – it is really fun to play around with the instruments. Normally, my compositions are for piano (and I think I’ll continue to compose pieces entirely for piano first, before I begin orchestrating them), so that I thought for a long time, I would not be interested in pieces for full orchestra. But there were two experiences during the last few month which have caused my interest in orchestration to grow more and more: First, there is a choir and an orchestra in Berlin (the “Orso Choir”) that were founded by a very dynamic man and are under his direction. About twice a year, they perform special arrangements orchestrated by the conductor at the Berliner Philharmonie —for example, interpretations of rock music, film scores, or even themes from video games. And even though these genres aren’t usually among my interests, it’s great fun to watch the conductor “play” with his “toy”—the symphony orchestra. The second was a performance of of Dvořák’s “Stabat Mater” with a full orchestra and a massive choir (430 singers). This was a real fun, not only because of the bombastic sound, but also because I was able to follow Dvořák’s orchestration live. For example, in the opening movement, Dvorak stays very long on the harmonies and even single tones – letting them „rotate“ through the entire orchestra. At one point, you hear and see the cellos playing a chord while the double basses accompany them with pizzicato. A moment later, you can still hear the chord, but you see that the cellos have stopped playing, and after a moment of surprise, you realize that the horns have taken over and the pizzicato has been reinforced by the timpani. Yet the transition was so seamless that you didn’t even notice the change in instruments, only a slight shift in timbre. So, let’s go on orchestrating (and composing)! Wieland

Hello, I got the sheets and followed along with the music for the one in C major. There is a brief part of the piece that sounds like Brahms to my ears... Maybe it's because I don't know much about Brahms and when I hear lullaby I get subconsciously primed to think of Brahms :). From a performance point of view, I found it easier to play the notes differently than how you notated it. IE, instead of playing 3 notes in left hand and 3 notes in right hand, I found it easier to play 4 notes in left hand and 2 notes in right hand sometimes. Dunno if it's worth to do some cross beaming. Hopefully that makes sense.

The piece in F major is well done. Although it has simple, sparse lines, it all sounds really good to me.

Fair point. I agree with this (without nostalgia, of course). It seems that because people are being exposed to so many musical languages today, there can be an underlying sentiment that "all music is equal". Or else the classical canon is treated as something sacred and inviolable, and its composers above all criticism. Either approach bypasses the hard and necessary work of actually understanding WHAT makes these pieces work, on a level deeper than that of surface rule-following (since rules evolve and change, but the principles behind music don't). Quoting Boulez here: "In order truly to harness the power of the classics, you have to dig deeper, reach down to what made them behave in a particular way, to understand and to analyze their approach. It is not enough to observe the results and to dispossess them (quotation, stylistic imitation, etc.); creativity does not have sufficiently powerful thematicism at its disposal, but becomes spent, though referencing and distorting, no longer able to forge material only for itself."

The reason for that is because it has a low barrier to entry. With synths and sound design, you can hold down a single note and get instant "atmosphere". You can be someone who comes from the EDM world and potentially score a major film. Creating the equivalent with an orchestra is much more difficult and much more work, but the results are always more musical. Directors these days don't really care much about what instruments you use, melody, etc. They just care that it "fits the vibe". A lot of people are mistakenly assuming the directors only want this synth stuff. On my most recent film, I used a mix of synths and orchestra, but I deliberately tried to write in the "old style" as much as possible. The director was never bothered by melody or the orchestra (he had no real requirements regarding instruments), his feedback only ever concerned "vibe" and whether something was too big or small sounding for a given scene.

Talk of "innovation" is a moot point when we are inundated with music that isn't even "good" to begin with. If something is new, but it sucks, then it doesn't matter how different it is. So the conversation is kind of cart before horse. People mistakenly assume, in a world right now of endless remakes, re-releases, etc. that the problem is a lack of "new ideas". The reality is that we, as a society, are not presently able to replicate what made the the old things great in the first place. And if we can't do that, then no "innovative" idea is going to be worth a damn.

I just hope you don't use triplets as a crutch. I think beginning composers often struggle with writing good melodies that don't sound like just noodling up and down in a certain scale/key and introducing triplets or other novel rhythms is a crutch that many use to try and create melodic interest and imo it doesn't really work. Nothing can substitute for a good idea of where a melody is going and having a good form/structure.

"Meandering Up and down".......................... that made me laugh out loud , or should i say LOL ?

I think it sounds absolutely brilliant. And it’s an impressive piece of work, especially the detail with which you’ve crafted the strings. I also really like the fact that ‘it doesn’t sound like a piano at all, but rather like an orchestra’. And yes, I did want to make a few observations which, as I say, are just that – my opinions. Firstly, I’ve already mentioned the question of key. E flat minor is a brilliant key for the piano, but it’s one of the worst for the orchestra. Berlioz said as much in his treatise, as did Rimsky-Korsakov in his. I don’t know, it seems there’s a bit of a fear of transposing the work a semitone up or down, as if it were sacrilege or as if we were straying terribly from the composer’s intention. I believe that if we’re orchestrating, we have to make the best decisions to ensure it sounds as good as possible. But I’ll say it again, it’s up to each individual. The second point is the choice of the English horn as an instrument throughout the work. It’s not that I think it’s wrong, but I do wonder whether it’s really necessary. Apart from specific cases (Impressionism, etc.) where it can serve as a distinctive ‘colour’ instrument, in the orchestra I believe it is an instrument of extension and should only be used when the two oboes cannot cover the lower register. The opening line, for example, could be played very well by a second oboe. In other instances, even where it is possible, I feel the English horn is in a rather high register. Thirdly, another instrument where I would sometimes have assigned its part to a different instrument is the flute. In bar 15, it is in a low/very low register and will be completely drowned out by the English horn, even with the flutes in A2. I can see the intention to add a different colour to that phrase, which is why they’re doubling, but I’m not sure – in this case, I would have doubled the C an octave higher with a clarinet, for example. The octave doubling of the A-flat flute in bars 52–53… There, Flute 1 completely drowns out Flute 2 because it’s in its brilliant register, and Flute 2 is doing its best. One of the things I was taught on the woodwinds is to try not to double at the octave with the same instrument, because the difference (imbalance) in tone and volume is very great. It’s better to double with another instrument whose range in that other octave is optimal. Well, please excuse all this, as these are minor details in the context of such an extensive and beautifully crafted score, which sounds absolutely marvellous. Finally, a question: what software do you use.... In bars 73 and 74, the clarinets haven’t been condensed I don’t know if you do this manually or if the condensing is automated. I sometimes have those problems and when the programme won’t...

Wonderful job!! Your orchestration really demonstrates an understanding of the instruments and timbre - the color achieved when combining different instrument groups is 👌🏾 I don't really have any other notes. It's really balanced and retains the feel of the original piano piece. Nicely done 😁

Now we have two Eb minor pieces right next to each other! Congratulations on your arrangement. Especially enjoyed your use of muted horns, and viola solos. Seem to remember using the harp even more sparingly in my version.

I forgot to mention Japanese music, as I'm only slightly familiar with it. In particular, I really think Async by Ryuichi Sakamoto is a great work. Also, I find some J-Pop songs fascinating. The vocal styles are quite distinctive to my ears. So, these are Japanese examples. Ryuichi Sakamoto - Async DAIKI TSUNETA - THE FEST SUITE FOR CARTIER J-Pop ↓ ヨルシカ - だから僕は音楽を辞めた Fujii Kaze - Nan-Nan Kenshi Yonezu - Pop Song

Ok, this is such an interesting topic. I didn't know some of the pieces and musicians. I've already learned about new music :) I hope that more people will respond to it. Here are my examples. Johan Johannsson - Orphee John Adams - Short Ride in a Fast Machine Albert Zabel - La Source (Am Springbrunnen) for Harp, Op. 23 Eliane Radigue - Musique de notre temps Hania Rani - Buka Ennio Morricone - The Crisis Marcus Miller - Power Cecil Taylor - Unit Structures

I have some good examples for concert music Richard Meyer Soon Hee Newbold Brian Balmages Randall Standridge John Mackey Robert Sheldon Frank Ticheli and much more

Hey, these seem very nice! I will check them out. Already "liked" them, I can just tell from glancing at a few of them...Yes, I'm worried about my best friend Jackie, wheezing/breathing problems, but she is probably ok; needs her Albuterol/Ventolin inhaler. I'll probably get some beer to help calm my nerves and listen; after all, my own music sounds better to me after a couple beers!😆(I sure don't want to hear my sonata again unless I know she's OK, it's about her! I had to listen so many times to edit, anyway, seeing that I can't even play piano.)