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Good evening, Many of you know me as a die hard zealot of the common practice period. But I have been experimenting recently with model / non-functional harmony. My reason for this centre largely on my admiration for the music of Jeremy Soule (famous as the composer of the video game series 'Elder Scrolls'), the film music of Howard Shore (e.g. LOTR) as well as my general appreciation of minimalism (Max Richter, for example). In many respects the theoretical basis of modal and non-functional harmony could not be more different - even sacrilegious - compared with CCP given the more 'liberal' approach to voice leading. For example, there is often an appetite for omitting the third of a chord for the effect it produces can be aligned with the 'scene' being supported (e.g. inducing a feeling of emptiness and mystery) as well as usage of consecutive 5ths to produce an 'archaic' style of voice (which could work if the scene involves exploration of a dark, ancient ruin, for example). Thus, with this type of music, what matters is less the 'rules' than the effect the writing produces. This has fascinated me. Although my own background, in which many of these 'rules have been embedded into my consciousness, taking this different approach to music has its challenges. It is all too tempting to revert to the voice leading that I know best. But it doesn't necessarily need to be one or the other... perhaps I can combine the two approaches. So I share with you my first serious attempt at this style. A few notes on my approach: In the first half, I prioritize establishing a tonal centre around C & G. The E is intentionally omitted to create tonal ambiguity - are we in C minor or C major? The first violin opens with a central motif that I later manipulate and exchange between the different voices at various pitches. This motif applies chromaticism that further adds mystery to the tonal centre Resolutions are avoided in a traditional sense: the cadence may end on an inversion without the third. Only towards the end of the piece do I start to apply resolutions but not without several evasions, before finishing with a compound cadence that marks the first and only moment with a complete cadence. Naturally I'd like to hear your thoughts. What do you feel? Also - those experienced in this type of music - what could I have done better? With thanks, Markus Weariness.mp3 Weariness.pdf

Hello everyone. I have two very different pieces I'd like to show you guys First is my etude in E major, which I composed a few months ago. The overall form is very much like chopin etudes, but the harmonic language, particularly in the b section, can become more like late liszt or even impressionism. The main exercise of the etude is a focus on voicing and keeping the fast right hand very light, which is difficult since the voiced notes are double stemmed with the 16th note arpeggiated-like figure. The right hand can also get a little awkward in certain parts, the left hand requires specific articulation, and I even wrote the piece using 3 staves. The pedaling is also a big challenge, and I myself struggle with it as you may hear in the recording. With all that said, while I believe it’s very musically difficult, it is definitely nowhere close to the harder chopin and liszt etudes technically, but I hope you found it interesting to listen to and let me know what you guys think. Heres my recording: https://youtube.com/shorts/_oecn04h1xg Then this is my second etude in C# minor, the one after the one in E major, which is more recent. The main challenge of the etude is maintaining a cantabile melody in the left hand thumb (and index finger), alongside a smooth rolled chord gesture in the same hand, and a rapid, but light, right hand with a 10 note tuplet in 32nd notes, which acts as a sort of ostinato. As you can tell from listening to the piece, it is very different from the first etude, which was more chopinesque in form, lisztian in harmony (particularly mid period liszt), and slightly impressionistic in texture. In this etude, however, I decided to expand further on the impressionistic aspect of my writing, experimenting with these flowing textures and ambiguous harmonies through devices like polyrythms and tuplets, changes in meter, the arpeggiated like flow of the right hand ostinato, having two different time signatures with the same number of beats working together in measures (for example having 12/8 and 4/4 or 9/8 and 3/4 together, and ravel does exactly this in “une barque sur l’ocean” in his miroirs), as well as using extended harmonies and other other random harmonic stuff i figured out through hearing these composers and improvisation which may be too difficult to explain in this text lol. Anyway, I had a lot of fun with this composition, I learned a lot of new things through it, I hope you enjoy it, and let me know what yall think. Here is the recording: https://youtube.com/shorts/JzwQNJA4yO8 Etude in E major - Full Score.pdf Etude in C-Sharp Minor, No 2 - Full Score.pdf

Hello, As you mentioned, the E major one sounds very chopin-ey, can hear direct quotes from the waterfall etude...but it's in E major! The C# Etude sounds absolutely wicked, in a good way. Of course it's very impressionistic. However! I accidentally opened two of your youtube links, so I had two versions of you playing, slightly out of sync and it sounded really cool. Obviously, you posted this with the general idea around classical music. But I wonder if some music producer could remix your works somehow, add a bit of delay or something. Maybe what you weren't thinking about...try it and let me know what you think? Both etudes in very different styles...Bravo!

Hello. A super interesting topic that could go a long way.... First of all, let me say that your short piece sounds very beautiful and I love it. I would only change one thing, which I will comment on later. I’m definitely going to say it here: I consider myself quite deeply involved in these matters of modality; in fact, my own curiosity led me to write a mini-manual where I explain how to develop musical systems from a scale-mode (any of the hundreds out there). The first thing to point out is that I think it’s a mistake to compare modal systems with tonal ones (and these with atonal ones). We need to forget about voice leading, 'forbidden' parallels, etc.... Modal music predates tonal music by more than a thousand years, and it didn't need any comparison. It must be understood as a horizontal, melodic system where there are no notes to avoid, and where certain colors (characteristic notes of the mode) are highlighted. The fact that we use chords in modal harmony today is a much later 'construct' in which the concept of the triad-chord is applied to the vertical coincidence of melodic lines in modal music. That is how harmony was born... From our perspective, since we are already familiar with functional-tonal harmony (which has thoroughly saturated our brains), we can approach a composition from an extremely wide spectrum. You can be purely modal, purely tonal, or a varying mix of both. Anything goes. In your composition, and based on your comments, one can sense a hesitation that comes and goes, which is more conceptual than musical, since the piece is completely valid and effective. But let me comment: the beginning establishes a C-G drone... typical modal style. It doesn't matter that you haven't introduced the third. The very moment the first Db note sounds on the violin, you are defining some mode of C Phrygian. In fact, it is a note that is heard at many points. If you were strictly following C Phrygian, the notes would be C, Db, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb.... However, in measure 4, we see an E natural in the bass, then an F#... These can be interpreted as approaches to the following notes they resolve to... A typical tonal concept. In tonal music, notes resolve; in modal music, they don't—they are there to provide color. You want to use notes outside a scale-mode? There is no problem at all. It's just like using chromatic notes in a tonal composition. The problem is that if you want to maintain the color, the specific flavor of a mode, you have to be careful not to use tonal-functional resources that easily destroy that 'modal framework'. And that is what happens at the end of the composition, where there is a ii - V - I pattern ending in C major, which, for me, cancels out everything that came before. I insist that one can do whatever they want when composing. But our ears are so contaminated by tonal music that this progression ending in a perfect cadence G - C.... takes you right back to any period of the common practice. Especially the B-C..... That sounds like leading tone-tonic anywhere. But like I said: very beautiful music.

Hello @Markus Boyd. I hope everything around you is going well. As for this feedback, I want to say I'm sorry that I can't provide you with constructive feedback based on music theory. But I will try my best to help just a little bit for your improvement. Impression and Feedback First of all, the very first Violin 1 note immediately drew me into your work. I personally feel this is very noteworthy because it is very difficult to immerse people in a piece of music. Perhaps that is because that violin sound was probably a contrast to the abruptness of Violin 1 against the fluid opening by the quiet Violin 2 and Viola. My suggestion is: how about making the initial performance of Violin 2 and Viola a little longer, and delaying the introduction of Violin 1 a bit? I don't think that even if Violin 2 and Viola are played just a little longer, it will cause people to get bored, and depending on the timing, it may even draw them in more. I also liked the development of the harmony from 0:40. One thing I liked was the final ending from 1:23. Personally, I thought it could have been extended a little more with some kind of development. The progression was a little too cheerful, and I felt it was slightly out of sync with the somewhat melancholic atmosphere of the piece. This is just my personal opinion, so please don't take it too seriously. Overall, I think it's a good piece. Suggested works In the middle section of this piece, I personally felt a similar vibe to Ligeti's Atmosphères. At the same time, I also felt the vibes of Pärt's Tabula Rasa: I. Silentium. I think Markus is familiar with both, so I'll share another piece with you. You may already know this, but I felt a connection between your work and this one. Please take it into consideration :) I hope this feedback helps you a bit. Best, Lithl.

Oh, what an amazing piece. I completely agree that @PeterthePapercomPoser gave you an award. First, I want to say you are a skilled piano player and I admire you for it. The notes are really clear, and the sounds are beautiful. I'm going to share my feedback on both of your pieces. Etude in E major This piece has a very classical sound to me, with a light, waltz-like atmosphere. The harmonies are very gentle and pleasant to listen to, and somehow it gave me a cinematic feel. The section at 1:02 is also wonderful, and the overall smoothness of the piece is fantastic. Etude in C# minor Personally, I preferred this one. Both are wonderful pieces, but somehow the arpeggios, harmonies, and development of this piece hit home for me. For me, this piece evoked an image of a man in a raincoat (dark navy blue) wandering the streets in the rain, holding an umbrella, and coming up with various ideas. The development at 1:43 and 0:55 seems to be the inspiration; the arpeggios that continue throughout the piece probably evoked a feeling of rain. In any case, there are wonderful motifs that evoke such scenes, and I think it's well-composed and well-performed. Overall, it's absolutely fantastic. Outstanding. Please continue posting. I really appreciate your pieces a lot. Amazing pieces! Best, Lithl.

@Lithl I agree with your comments. I had considered lengthening the opening, actually. I couldn’t quite pull it off but there must be an effective way to extend the idea. It’s interesting that you and @Luis Hernández expressed disengagement with the ending, that is the first and only genuine tonal cadence. My rationale was an attempt to somehow merge the tonal and modal into a simple and relatable narrative: anguish first, uncertainty in direction that follows, before a somber finish with a picardie third cadence that offers some form of renewal. That was the concept, anyway. I can certainly play around with it more, but i have a question… If a tonal conclusion is not satisfactory for this type of music, where the expectation is perhaps sustain ambiguity above all, how should it end? I am aware of layering technique in this genre, where essentially in the latter sections the music just falls away - disintegrates if you will - as a collapse. It leaves not resolution but a lingering unease. In the ‘more’ tonal music of Jeremy Soule, he sometimes ends the music with a central motif but with ‘messy harmony’ with ‘sonorities’ that correspond not with the harmony but contribute towards a lush atmosphere that sounds beautiful but does not make much logical sense. I’ll share it, if you want to hear.

Oh wow thank you @PeterthePapercomPoser for this award, this means a lot to me, Thanks 😅

Yeah, I have a lot of feedback actually So, what about this exactly makes it a Chaconne? According to Britannica: "The musical form of the chaconne is a continuous variation, usually in triple metre and a major key; it is generally characterized by a short, repeating bass line or harmonic progression." I would be sure you know what the type of piece your writing is before naming it such. Musically, there are a lot of issues that need correction, and generally I think more care could be taken when writing this piece. Since it seems you're trying to write in a classical style, I will judge it that way. First of all, provide dynamics! Is it forte, piano? where would the dynamics change? Rehearsal markings are for rehearsals. Since this is a solo piano piece, you don't need rehearsal markings. You also don't need them every 4 bars. To mark the new variations, simply use double bar lines. Next, the left-hand block chords are really clunky. This is partly because they frequently jump around in root position. Even when writing keyboard music, keep voice leading in mind. But also, the simple fact they're block chords lends to its clunky nature. The left hand is providing accompaniment, and block chords are just uninteresting. Give some rhythm to it. Or make them broken chords in some way. The right hand has no melody, just broken chords, until bar 9, and then it goes away again. This is a Chaconne, a type of theme and variations, what exactly is being varied. The melodic writing itself is workable, but unclear. The notes you pair with the melody seem to have been chosen a little haphazardly. They really just reinforce the harmony, which is already very clear thanks to the block chords, and doesn't support the melody at all. It also has similar 5ths that make it sound clunky. Again, keep basic voice leading rules in mind. The rhythms in mm. 13-15 are very "pop"-like and feel out of place here, but that's not necessarily bad. Just make sure whatever you're doing, you're being stylistically consistent. The suspended chords in mm. 17-20 are non-functional and are extremely dissonant and out of place. Likewise, the left-had arpeggios starting m. 21 don't outline any functional harmony. Harmonically, the interlude just meanders. Structurally, a 4-bar theme doesn't really lend itself to anything interesting, especially with the fast tempo and very short and (and overused) chord progression. An 8-bar theme or longer would not only be more interesting but would give you more to work with for the following variations. Another structural issue is the lack of direction. In something like a chaconne or passacaglia, the harmony loops, so you can't really develop the music with modulations, sequences, etc. But there still needs to be momentum. Have each variation increase in dynamics, or note-duration, or something else, but make it gradual, and make it feel like the music has a goal. Right now, it just meanders, and it makes it quite boring. So, to summarize: work on the accompaniment to make it more interesting, make the melody stronger and clearer, consider expanding the duration of each variation, and make sure the music has a momentum.

Ok, yes, indeed, this topic about mental illness is really controversial. And I basically don't talk about this, but this opportunity is gonna be good for me. I will pick some of them. One of them (Daddy, Stalaggh) is really, kind of... One of the only genres which I can't listen to a lot. And another one called "Everywhere At The End Od Time" is, honestly, amazing and I liked it; it's too long though. I hope this helps you! The Caretaker - Everywhere At The End Of Time Penderecki: Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima I suppose you already know about Penderecki, though! KoRn - Daddy Stalaggh - Projekt Misanthropia I listened to your Andante for Strings and that was really good! I truly hope your mental condition is good, Peter. I feel I need to listen to some of your old works :) And I agree that this subject is a difficult topic. Grant Weep, creating this topic might be a bit controversial and require some courage, but thank you for doing so. Best, Lithl.