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Hello, I didn't know much about music theory when I started composing around age 12/13. I am in my late 30's now, and still writing. Never took a lesson in music theory, but I am more interested in music theory these days. If you write music long enough, you will notice the patterns yourself and if you pay close enough attention to what you are doing, or willing to take risks you will eventually pick a few things up on music theory. One obviously does not need to know music theory to compose music. As people have pointed out...it does depend on what kind of music you intend to write. You have gotten extreme good advice I think. I will give you some advice from my perspective. I think that if you intend to pursue music as a hobby, it might be fun to simply use music theory as an adjunct to your purposes. Here's what I mean by this: In my opinion, so much of western tonal music (there is so much out there that is not conventional western music like traditional folk music, instruments that use microtuning etc) is sort of "figured out". To me, music theory is simply a map that intrepid and pioneering composers have drawn out and analyzed/labeled after their own efforts in exploring the music landscape. To embark on your personal journey, you probably don't need the whole map, but it might to help to have some starting spots. Your starting spot will likely come from the type of music you find personally compelling. Of course, if you are thinking about being a professional musician/composer I think that music theory may not be technically necessary (especially if you are a genius!) but extremely useful. Once again, if you are just here for the fun...I think that it's nice to explore the musical landscape yourself through composition. There have been many times that I found something that I thought was mine while composing only to realize that the "greats" of music have already explored these concecpts and often time explored them more carefully than I had done so. As I go older, this feeling of finding something new started to become more and more rare, and so I started to try to actively learn more about it. The older I get, the more I appreciate all the musical worlds and maps that have been discovered before me. But that's part of getting old I think. It's very normal to be young and want to conquer the world. I think most of have been there to some extent :) Hope you keep writing and learning and sharing! EDIT - some spelling errors, whoops.

OCD is actually a tricky thing. It can mean a different things to lay people and has specific meaning to mental health professionals. So, I have no idea your background and hence cannot deduce what you mean by OCD spectrum or OCD. From my perspective as a professional, OCD is much more about "doubt" than perfectionism. And the doubt is very specific and pathological and carries with it a unique meaning, with some overlap between the lay person's idea of doubt. One theme in OCD would be symmetry. I could perhaps see someone with OCD (if the music is a severe manifestation of their psychopathology), writing music that is very mathematically rooted. Maybe sort of like some of Bach's music which seems to be almost symmetrical? Anyways, I have no idea...just hypothesizing since you brought up OCD. Of note, perfectionism is moreso seen as a OCPD trait/disorder. And I 100% can see that many composers would have OCPD traits or disorder. Heck, most professionals (lawyers/doctors/dentists etc...) will have OCPD features. I've always wondered if ADHD help with improvisation and therefore acts a bridge to better composing. Just a theory....a composition theory! This is great stuff. I really enjoyed the caretaker piece. I am really hoping to write something like this, but for solo piano. Your musical taste is very broad Lithl!

Lots of points to address here! I was going for upper Classical era (1775-1799), but I can see a bit of Schubert era in it; perhaps not in the modulations I used but in the texture and techniques. (Modulation: I strictly stayed away from modulation by Chromatic mediant and heavier use of the chromatic scale. That would have occurred decades later. I did, however, stick to borrowed Major-minor and common dim. sevenths; both of which were highly characteristic of Piano Sonatas of the era!). As far as whether my music is absolute or programmatic: one may say it's in a grey area between. I do hope to paint a loose narrative at best. The rest is simply left to be enjoyed for the music it is. Thank you. And, cheers! The MIDI was indeed a little distorted. So, hopefully, that does clear up a lot of any questioning areas that you may have found. Otherwise, I suppose it would behoove me to ask specificallywhere you particularly saw issues with this ensemble's effectiveness. If limited range, as well as the DB playing too fast in its 'Altissimo' range where it wouldn't speak like the Cello, are it, I am completely aware of these issues; and have made revisions to an earlier addition that hopefully address them decently. Though, I am still open to addressing any lingering and persisting issues that may still be there. That aside: It was very much my knowing someone would say this that actually drove me to be a passionate Viola composer; and to develop the Alto Piano Trio ensemble to begin with. 😁 The Viola is, from my understanding, still an under-represented and continually under-appreciated instrument; in the orchestra and in general use. (Though, thanks to the classical movement that I am a part of to promote it, representation has improved since the Classical.) The Double-Bass is not too far from that same boat. And thus, my hope to see ever-changes to that gave birth to this ensemble. (As one Violinist, who actually supports my vision and mission, had light-heartedly told me: "You don't need to write anything more for us. We have enough Piano Trios, Violin/Cello Concertos, Violin/Cello orchestral solos, Violin/Cello Sonatas, Violin/Cello string duos, String Quartets featuring Cello/Violin I, etc. to last [Violinists/Cellists] a lifetime".)

Hello @Luis Hernández, This is a playful and nice piece. To me, it sounds like a kitten is walking around and discovering new things with joyful feelings. It will be nice if this piece is played in the background of such a situation. Thank you for sharing! Best, Lithl.

This seems cool! I intend to submit something. I'll also be planning on live streaming my composition process on Twitch throughout the week. https://www.twitch.tv/jdevormusic

Evening, I've decided to come out of my comfort zone and, today, compose for my primary instrument, which is the classical guitar. I have played since 9 but in recent years have lost touch with it; but I have recently picked it up again and it has been giving me a new lease for life. Of course, it will be great to play my own music and this is my intention. Composing for the guitar has added difficulties owing to the layout of the fretboard. In addition, one must work out at which position of the fretboard certain passages should be played. If, for example, I tried to play this music up to fret 7 only, there would be a lot of awkward jumping around that isn't practical. On the score, I have added numbers beside certain notes which fingers should play them. The circular numbers above the stave denote the position I have determined. The next task will be to learn to play it at a reasonable standard. Once I have done, I will endeavor to upload my performance to this thread. This piece is largely baroque in style with some hints of classical, too. I have written it mostly in two parts, due to the speed and my intention to play it (I am not virtuosic!). In terms of my influences, I have been listening a lot to Bach's Keyboard Suites lately. I love his 3/8 movements (for example, the prelude for BWV 808. Prelude for Guitar.mp3 Prelude for Guitar.pdf

How's it happening, YoungComposers community, Would you all like to casually take note of all the potential historic inaccuracies of this suite's movement? 😁 (I have two.) edit - Just to clarify, my inquiry above was tongue-in-cheek; it's not ALL I was looking for in this piece's discussion. You can make any kinds of comments, suggestions, constructive criticism and any such responses as you feel you like to contribute. Jubilant Hall for the Dance of the Giants (composition) - Sonata in G for Alto Piano Trio - Movement I - Evening's Entrance.mp3 3-movement Alto Piano Trio Suite in G - Jubilant Hall for the Dance of the Giants - Movement I - Evening's Entrance (Sonata-Allegro).pdf

Hello again, I couldn't resist giving it a go myself. Let me be clear that I don't do this kind of thing to diminish other people's efforts, or make myself look better. On the contrary, it's about creating a space for learning (we are all learning here). I mentioned that Bar 17 has opportunities for refinement I wish to illustrate how I would approach it should you find it useful. First of all, the I-V motif is repeated twice. In your solution, you end both instances in the tonic key. I would argue it is more effective to have the first instance ending on V, providing the foundation for a statement and response sort of idea (the response resolves the prior statement). In my realization I add the 4# in the bass to create a converging cadence into D major. In the response, I have written a semiquaver pattern for the piano's treble clef that provides momentum towards your cadential semiquaver flourish. Second, the antiphony/dialogue in that I-V motif is taken between the db and viola. One thing I would say is that many of your ideas have a solid foundation for this sort of thing. So you have a head start in that respect. I always look for opportunities to produce a coherent and convincing dialogue between the instruments I am using. I’ll share a video with you, in this spirit, that you might find interesting A Chen.pdf A Chen.mp3

@ARCMusicPublishings By ineffective I was referring to areas where there is less spacing between the soloists (for example the passage starting bar 9). I do get your point about the viola being underrepresented, although my broader point was its pairing with a bass string instrument. That is unusual for the reduced range of pitch exploit. Regarding the engraving, there are a few things I’d like to ask. The note stems you use are sometimes joined between the bass and treble. Also some of the note values are written counterintuitively. For example, bar 50. The A in the db lasts a whole note, but is tied a dotted quarter note, quaver and minim. The viola also has a tied A across two quarter notes while effectively lasting one half note. I wonder whether this has something to do with the way you input the notes - perhaps you’re using a midi keyboard into which you play, and the computer inputs the notes on the stave? Last thing to mention, in that nice motif from Bar 17 that is repeated once, you could vary the dialogue slightly with diminution when repeated - perhaps in the piano part - as a way to intensify the passage towards the cadence. It’s just a suggestion, but it’s something I personally would look at.

@Yevgeniy Kazantsev This is very much a lovely piece of relatable woodwind duo that I can see being performed in many recitals and abound. I mostly appreciate your well-utilized 'echo'-imitative polyphony; as well as your few 'spiced' moments of visiting M2 intervals. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ One point of minor concern that immediately stood out to me is your giving what seems very easily an Oboe II part to the English Horn: with the except of the very end, the range is something that could be achieved on its default Soprano (Oboe). I usually advise string composers (or composers who include string in their composition; whether it's Quartet, orchestra, small ensemble, etc.) to be sensitive not to write another low Violin part and simply give it to the Viola. Violists will not be happy if you don't regularly visit their C-string; other than their powerful darker Alto intonation, this is the one characteristic that greatly sets them apart from the Violin. The above advice likewise applies here to the Alto Oboe: English Horn. Be careful that you don't write another Oboe part and simply give it to the English Horn. Under-represented instruments, such as the EH, want their moment to shine; to showcase themselves in those ways that set them apart from their dominant diva counterpart. What sets the EH apart from the Oboe? It reaches an E3 concert-sounding. (I'm confident you're fully aware of this, so I will speak no further about this very point.) My overall meaning: let the EH access those rich concert-sounding Alto pitches below B-flat-3. They are there because the Oboe cannot access them. Perhaps take some passage 8vb (maybe even 15mb). That would be my only advice; if you were to keep the EH part.

Yes, this is very helpful. I've actually looked into historical records of Schuman and his mental illness. Some think it was a neurological condition, others not so much. I think politics gets involved too. I've ventured my own educated guess on the matter. For me, it's also a matter of professional interest in some ways. I've heard the stories of Rach and the failure of his first symphony and his come back piano concerto No2. I've heard about the stories of tragedy of Mahler's life, I think his children was killed tragically? I guess maybe I wasn't as specific...I am not really looking at composers who have mental illness. Music can be written by all sorts of people, I don't know that a mental illness is drastically going to alter the music with the possible exception of claiming that music is more authentic (if writing a song about, a mental illness that a composer actually has experienced. I am looking at deliberate depictions of mental illness in music. So, a song specifically written about a diagnosis, like Bipolar Disorder. It could be written by a person who has bipolar disorder, or a person who does not have bipolar disorder...if that makes sense. Thanks for sharing some tidbits on the other composers that I was not aware of. It may interest you that people have looked into the link between mental illness and creativity and there is some strong correlation with mood disorders (depression/bipolar disorder) and increased creativity. My ultimate goal isn't to romanticize or pathology these illnesses...I am trying to write a song to humanize these illnesses and perhaps to get people to understand mental illnesses better, reduce the stigma, maybe talk about it a bit more. So hopefully in this sense, this post is not overly controversial. I am not suggesting that people who compose music are more or less mentally ill than the general population.

Sometime I enjoy just making a bad song. I was going for a late 80’s early 90’s adult contemporary sound. Bad Pop Rock Song No.3.mp3

Robert Schumann is the most famous one. He was bipolar and was very prolific during his manic periods and produced almost nothing during his depressive states. He of course ended up in an asylum. Tchaikovsky suffered from severe depression and aniexty. He had a fear his head would fall off while conducting and would hold it with one hand. Mahler and Rachmaninov both suffered from clinical depression. While Bruckner had OCD, being famous for having an obsession with counting objects. And finally Arnold Schoenberg had triskaidekaphobia, a severe fear of the number 13.

You managed to get my attention with that other thread, so i thought i’d spend some time looking at your work. First impressions: Sounds late viennese at times Schubertian. From its title, it is programmatic? You are depicting a specific scene to music, something to do with giants dancing? What kind of dance is this? Second, you mention this is in the “classical style”; my question with respect to this is whether you’re aiming for an authentic classical style or more fluid (neo-classical). I feel this is an important question relevant to the feedback you may be seeking. As for the music itself, you’ve done well to develop your ideas. On first glance I didn’t detect any stand-out issues with the voice leading. I did also feel the Viola-bass pairing not only unusual but ineffective. I understand that pairing is very rare in the repertoire, probably because composers preferred treble/bass pairing to access a wider range in pitch. It may well be due to the MIDI quality, although it was at time difficult to hear the distinctive voice of either the bass or viola when together. Finally, you could look to spice the piano part up a little more. It is largely effective as it is, but you could expand its expressive capacity as a third voice in the dialogue. But if you wish it to be primarily supportive that is fine.

@ARCMusicPublishings You’re absolutely right in that I did not wish to convey a “dismissive” attitude. When I post feedback on works here, i primarily look for two things: The intentions and approach to the work. If this isn’t provided, I ask to inform my feedback. The score: this helps inform whatever feedback i may have. All of this ties in with the way in which I seek to provide feedback: What is the story being told, here? How is that narrative constructed? What are the strengths and limitations? What recommendations might I have? In this case, I had neither to work with but a 13 minute long audio file, with individual movements at least timestamped. This is why I asked the creator to share this, but unfortunately was not forthcoming with that. Some general advice to those listening: I would really recommend anyone posting content on this forum for constructive feedback to make explicit this kind of important information at the outset, not only in courtesy to the reviewer but also to give your own music the attention it deserves. Otherwise they leave it up to the listener to work it all out, which risks not only to diminish engagement but also misinterpreting or under appreciating the music itself. And while it is true that I have my own musical preferences, I make a lot of effort to keep that out of the foreground. What matters most to me is how effective the narrative is. If there is no narrative, I would seek to justify that, such as your point regarding background music. I don’t feel however that this was purposed as such. There are too many prominent motifs, apparent contrapuntal textures and dissonances, in my estimation.

Hello! (I came here from @Lithl's tag. Thank you! Btw I am listening to Saint Saens Concerto 5! It's great. You should try too!) So I don't believe you need any music theory to start composing, but to get better, and faster at the 'getting better', you do need music theory. I am technically a self-taught composer. I only started music theory lessons last year. I literally just write what I think would sound good. Here is a sample. Idea pops into brain during important test. (I am thirteen so I am still in school) I finish writing the test but idea is still there. I finish the rest of the day without forgetting the idea. I forget it on the way home. I re-remember it after like 5 hours. I go on musescore and write it. And just pay attention to a few stuff. Try to prevent parallel motion. Only later I was taught this was actually theory, but I first came up with this when I was seven. Voice leading! Very important. Same as the one before, but I came up with this when I was six. Try to break the rules 1 and 2 effectively. Got it? It is simple. Music composition is like a huge field, something like 内蒙古. You start from different places and go to different places. You do whatever you want. Whatever you think works. You will gain self-consciousness gradually and therefore improve. When I was nine, I thought I was good at composition. Now looking back, although still better than my classmates', it is nothing compared to my work now and some of the fellows on this site, YC. I see you are new, and that's not a problem, and by your state right now, it seems like you are very interested in composition. Good news! That's the first step to become a good composer or good anything. You are intrigued by it. When I first joined, this is what @Thatguy v2.0 said to me not long after I joined. Thank you once again, @Thatguy v2.0!!! @Woofi_9 Good luck! P.S. @Lithl Your reviews are not bad, they are great! Although it may not be backed up with music theory, it gives a listener's thought on the music. Very important. -TristanTheTristan

There are all kinds of opinions on this. I think learning music theory is very helpful if you want to be a composer. Of course, you can compose without knowing anything—by ear or intuition—but the possibilities that open up when you have more knowledge will definitely make your compositions better. I don’t think you need to know a lot—or even a little—about music theory, or anything else for that matter, to comment on compositions in this forum. There’s an intuitive, emotional aspect—and so on—that we all have, and that’s perfectly fine to discuss. Simply saying “I liked it,” “it reminds me of this,” or asking a question about the piece is a positive way to comment. Nor do I think that knowing theory—or anything else for that matter—requires formal training at an accredited institution. I do think, however, that if you want to make serious, steady progress as a self-taught musician, there will be times—and in certain disciplines—when you’ll need guidance from someone: a teacher, a workshop, etc. That’s been my experience. I’ve always been self-taught in music (in fact, my profession is something entirely different). But I took a formal course in tonal and modal harmony, as well as some courses in harmonization and arranging. Later, taking a course in counterpoint was essential, as was a seminar on fugues. Another essential course was the one I took on Contemporary Composition Techniques. And finally, the one I’m taking now on orchestration. With that foundation, I can tackle anything that comes my way, understand it, and put it to use. I also believe that the foundation of it all is tonal harmony and the common classical period, from the Baroque to the Romantic era—even if you’re later interested in another style.