Second Symphony

Hello,

I am new to this forum, but I am pretty excited to get my music out. This is my second symphony, just completed (i.e. before the months/years of editing) last night. Sadly I can't upload the midi's because my Finale will only record the first 16 tracks and then it starts repeating (So the oboe sounds as a violin, etc). If anyone knows how to fix this/has had a similar problem please let me know. So, as a consolation, I will upload all the movement's scores. Any feedback would be great! I fear my biggest issues are in my complete lack of knowledge regarding orchestration and development. Alas, I hope you all enjoy.

Thanks!

EDIT: I didn't read the rules perhaps as well as I should have, so I've subsequently withheld the why I wrote this from this post. This piece was started in May of 2006. I either had no or can't really remember anymore what the inspiration was. I guess the more I wrote, the more I became inspired to continue. The first movement is in a lose Sonata Allegro form, and is subtitled "The Passion" (not in the religious type passion, but the romantic kind) and I try to evoke a sense of heartfelt loss and romance (For instance, the timpani plays a 'heart beat' if you will, which returns in the final movement). The second movement's form is very lose and rhapsodic-like. It is subtitled "Day Dreams" although, although the first of the two major themes/events, is a rather heavy day dream. The third movement, the scherzo, if you will, also has a lose form (if you notice a trend in lose form, its because I don't know much about how to utilize a proper form). This movement is subtitled "Forgotten Night" because the anxious rushing and confusion evoked by the music. The last movement, entitled "The Early Mourning Sun" (no spelling error) was actually begun as a tone poem to a story I wrote with the same title. However, as the piece grew, I found that the story was not suited to be tone poem on its own account, and more importantly, the music seemed to make sense with the conception of the other movements. The story is basically this: A writer has writer's block and can only begin the story with the phrase 'The early mourning sun...' (in the music as a 2 measure motif, the quarter triplet to dotted quarter rhythm) , he then falls asleep (hopefully communicated in the music as sounding like the he is drifting away to sleep) and has a dream he is a nuclear bomb. (weird twist? perhaps, but it won me $100...) He then experience's the bomb's fear of falling, which it does, and then explodes (big climatic E diminished chord). There is a moment of sorrow (string trio part), he then wakes up, terribly excited/nervous to write down the story, but forgets it, then he kills himself (heart-beat motif from the first movement).

P.S. I never said I was a good writer... :P

I hope this helps with the understanding, I am still new to this forum so I am trying to get around to posting on more threads. Thus far, I am incredibly impressed with the music here, its a shame things like this aren't wildly more popular!

Thanks again for the comment thus far.

Symphony No 2 I done1.MUS

Symphony No 2 II.MUS

Symphony No 2 III.MUS

Symphony No 2 IV.MUS

All I can say for right now, is that you oculd be using winds alot more. At first I was pretty sure my comment was going to be, "you aren't giving the winds any melodic passages" then you started gicing it to them, but there are still gaping voids where there are no winds.

Thanks for the advice, one of the problems I have is excessive string writing. I guess its because I play cello and have been mostly in a string orchestra. I appreciate your input, hopefully I will learn better orchestration in college...

thanks tho!

Second movement

-The oboe solo would sound better on English horn, just my opinion.

-Measures 22-25, I don't like the Flute, Oboe, Clarinet echo.

-Great tension and then release at 44

-I don't know if I like the sudden unison. Perhaps I would like it better if you added the melody at a lower octave as well.

-I didn't understand the point of the unaccompanied string solos.

-I like the repetition of the oboe solo used with full orchestra.

-Why isn't the bassoon matching up with the cellos and basses?

Second movement

-The oboe solo would sound better on English horn, just my opinion.

Perhaps, I know very little about the English horn, and I knew less when I wrote this, but we shall see, there is an English horn part in the last movement, so I might add it into the others...?

-Great tension and then release at 44

-I don't know if I like the sudden unison. Perhaps I would like it better if you added the melody at a lower octave as well.

Thanks, and do you mean immediately following measure 44?

-I didn't understand the point of the unaccompanied string solos.

I play cello/made some of my friends(cellists) promises about solos...

-I like the repetition of the oboe solo used with full orchestra.

-Why isn't the bassoon matching up with the cellos and basses?

Thanks, and do you mean at the end in the falling arpeggio? If so, I just thought it sounded more settling to reach the final chord twice (in a sense?).

Thanks for the response, especially the specific comments, it is greatly appreciated, more so from a wind player (they usually avoid me... :laugh: ).

I hope you can take a look at the latter 2 movements. Thanks again!

Third movement:

191 -> Viola ends unexpectedly, try finding another way to cut it off, this way is too sudden, even with a diminuendo I would think.

280 ->Good luck finding an oboist that can play that high, let along those quick chromatic runs up there. I would suggest changing the oboe to a piccolo instead, maybe switch the parts from there, transpose some up or something of the like. The viola part after this bit would be incredibly difficult to play, but not impossible.

End measures -> Sorry, but I really don't like how this ends. I don't think you should have the horn tie over. Having the horn exposed at the very end is fine, but if you're gonna tie it over from the previous chord, maybe back it up with a few more instruments. I was also thinking something more sharp and crisp, but the way you ended it was a little to blotched for me.

Fourth movement:

You've waited until the fourth movement to introduce the harp? That's a no-no in my books. You better hope your harpist is a multinstrumentalist and can busy his/herself with playing another instrument part for the first three movements of the work. Otherwise, you are going to have one bored harpist. I don't see why not sneak it in in the other movements, especially the first two. Same for tuba. Go ahead, sneak it in in an earlier movement. Your musicians will hate you for giving nothing to do for twenty minutes. Your tuba part does go a bit high, you know. F3 and above can be hard.

Tubular bells. Don't call the stave "bells", the part will be confused with orchestral bells, also called a glockenspiel. Completely different instrument. Call the stave "tubular bells" or "chimes". Unless you wanted a glockenspiel, but I don't think you did. Either way, most chimes sets have a range from C4 to F5, that puts your high A's out of reach. They do make higher pitched chimes, but make sure your performers can get a hold of them.

242 - > I thought that the string solos don't really fit well after the chord and pause. How you came out of them was great, but the way you brought them in wasn't to convincing.

I really like how you ended this movement, absolutely fitting and brilliant.

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Very nice writing! :happy: I'm glad to see you have a good grasp on the instruments and their capabilities, your work is very nice. There were a few spots, but it wouldn't take long to weed out anything shifty, as least compared to how much you have worked on the piece already. :)

About your orchestration and development, you have a great start. In fact, you've accomplished more than many of us here on YC have. How long have you been writing and what is your age? We welcome you to YC, by the way! :) Can't wait to see more of your works. Second movement is my favourite, by the ways. The first is my least favourite, but that may be just because it is very long and I have a narrow attention span.

The only other thing I have to comment on is your articulation and dynamics. On the latter, where are they? In many spots, it would be nice for you to enter some in, even though your intent is not hard to figure out. On your articulation, your slurs in particular are inconsistant. Sometimes you used them, sometimes you didn't. I didn't get the impression that you understood the complexities of string bowing and wind tongueing by observing your slurs, do maybe you should touch on that, going through the whole work.

Great work, keep it up! Only still better. :)

I’ve only listened to the first and second movements so far. I’m downloading the others to listen to and exam in more detail later.

I’m not a composer, just a hobbyist, but this is some of the best stuff I’ve seen posted on here since I’ve been on this site. :thumbsup:

I’m saving all your mus files to use as a personal study! ;)

Thanks for posting them! I don’t know how they compare with professional stuff but it sounds professional to me and that’s all I care about. You’ve got some really great ideas and contrasts going on in there.

I love the way you introduce new motifs and interlace them and then twist them into something altogether differnet. This music is very intellectually stimulating. I wish I could learn to write something like this even on a smaller scale. I’ll glean many new ideas and techniques from this. Thanks for posting it!

280 ->Good luck finding an oboist that can play that high, let along those quick chromatic runs up there. I would suggest changing the oboe to a piccolo instead, maybe switch the parts from there, transpose some up or something of the like.

Why are we needing good luck to find an oboist who can play that? Is there an oboist who can't play that high? And why would you transpose that to Piccolo? It would get lost. lol. Where did you learn orchestration, buddy?

I've never seen an oboe part go above high Bb, and I've never seen an oboist that can do it well except for those in large orchestras. That part went up pretty darn high, like E, or something, and I've heard from professional oboists that writing that high is never a good thing. I don't play oboe, myself, so you're right if you're thinking to yourself I have no right in saying this. I myself don't have any clue what it's like playing those high notes, I've only heard that it is exceedingly difficult.

There are just a few I could find in scores on the web! Almost every orchestral part I have played has gone up to at least a high C. The Mozart oboe quartet goes up to a high F numerous times. The Gordon Jacob sonata goes to a high F in a rapid turn. The Barber Violin concerto, the solo in the second movement goes to a high E. The Saint Saens goes up to a G more than once. The oboe is very versatile, and can go pretty high.

The oboe part at 280 in mvmt III would probably work better on clarinet. You could easily swap the clarinet parts for the oboe parts right there.

The oboe's most usable range is from D4 to about F6*. From about C6 to F6, the sound is thin and doesn't project well. Younger oboists will probably play in that range either poorly out of tune, or won't be able to get the notes to speak at all. Personally, I'll play up to a G6 and won't even attempt to go higher.

*the actual maximum range of the oboe is Bb3 to A6, but Bb3 to C#4 can be difficult to control (unless in a louder passage), and tend to sound "honk"-ish. F#6 to A6 are very difficult to produce, and most oboists will laugh and not play them at all.

I don't mean to highjack the thread, but since the topic came up,...

What's the range of an oboe?

I'm just starting to learn a Bb clarinet and it's supposed to have a 3 - 1/2 octave range. I can't blow anything higher than a C#6 on mine but I think part of it is because it's a cheap toy instead of a real instrument. It's supposed to go up to C7. I'm missing the whole 3rd octave which I really don't care about anyway because I really wanted a bass clarinet.

What's the range of an oboe supposed to be? Does it go lower than the clarinet? The clarinet goes down to E3.

*the actual maximum range of the oboe is Bb3 to A6, but Bb3 to C#4 can be difficult to control (unless in a louder passage), and tend to sound "honk"-ish. F#6 to A6 are very difficult to produce, and most oboists will laugh and not play them at all.

You posted that whilst I was typing.

Thank you for the info. :thumbsup:

F#6 to A6 are very difficult to produce, and most oboists will laugh and not play them at all.

If an oboist came across those notes and had trouble with them, they wouldn't laugh, they would pretend and fake. Also, the range you have up there is incorrect. The oboe can go to the C above A6. It's not something I would write in music, but it can go that high.

From C6 to F6 is some of the most beautiful sounds made on the oboe when handled well. The oboe solo at the opening of the Barber Violin Cocnerto plays in this range and projects really well and is one of the most gorgeous solos written for the instrument. I provided a link for you to listen to if you haven't heard or played it.

Hey!

Thanks for all the posts, I am glad to hear you'll like my music.

I appreciate the advice about the orchestration, especially about the oboe stuff. For those who asked/are wondering, I am 18, and I have been composing for about 5 years. When I get all moved into college, I will post some other music I have written. Thanks again for the reviews.:D

I'm just starting to learn a Bb clarinet and it's supposed to have a 3 - 1/2 octave range. I can't blow anything higher than a C#6 on mine but I think part of it is because it's a cheap toy instead of a real instrument. It's supposed to go up to C7. I'm missing the whole 3rd octave which I really don't care about anyway because I really wanted a bass clarinet.

Oboehazzard, I would love to see your fingerings for A6 to C7. *chuckle* I don't know if I'd be brave enough to play them regularly (or claim them in my repertoire!), but it would be good knowledge to have!

I've never actually hit the C7, but I'll try and get a picture of my fingerings in the next few days. The C7 was the last note Tabuteau ever played. He played it, said he didn't feel to well, and went home and died that night. :D

Wow!

I have only listened to the first movement and I am astounded. Amazing job! Will you post your first symphony as well?

Bravo, Maestro, Bravo!

Edgar

BTW: For anyone who is interested-

evan symphony no. 2- 1.mid

evan symphony no. 2- 1.pdf