Just Starting Out

Hi Everyone, I stumbled upon this forum in my search to learn more about composing. I walked into a sound studio and someone showed me the software of EWQLSO, and Symphonic Choirs. I was blown away with the possibilities these programs offered. Since then i messed around with a few sequencers, but i am still a bit novice to how everything works. I havent spent money on anything yet, but id like to get the option of the experience of this group :).

What programs do you prefer to use these libraries?

Could you recommend any books, or other internet resources for someone just starting out?

I would like to try and mess with shareware or freeware before i put my dollar down for anything too serious.

Thank you very much for your time, it is much appriciated.

A couple of questions:

- Are you more concerned with notating music OR making music files which sound realistic?

- what sort of music do you want to write?

- how advanced is your knowledge of music (theory/composition, etc.) ?

1. Making Music that sounds realistic, although that may go hand in hand with notating music.

2. I enjoy classical, ambient, and especially soundtracks, so it would probably cater along those lines, i also love choirs, and old latin stuff, ave maria, Carmina Burana etc.

3.I am so so at reading music, i play a few instruments, trumpet, guitar, penny whistle, a little piano. I've studied some theory, but i wouldnt say it is my strong point.

In that case if you are serious I recommend you get yourself a few books. First off I recommend Walter Piston's 'Harmony'; I learnt an awful lot from it and still refer to it on an almost daily basis. Then it would be wise to get a book on orchestration/instrumentation. This will tell you about all of the diffrent instruments of the orchestra; how they are played, and how to write for them; knowledge that is critical if you ever want your music to be played by real musicians.

For making your music sound realistic you could search the Software and hardware forums on here for 'sample libraries', but it's important to understand what you're doing instead of hiding behind the pretty sounds these can offer you, so it's perhaps not too advisable to get one straight away.

I look forward to hearing some music from you ;)

1. Making Music that sounds realistic, although that may go hand in hand with notating music.

2. I enjoy classical, ambient, and especially soundtracks, so it would probably cater along those lines, i also love choirs, and old latin stuff, ave maria, Carmina Burana etc.

3.I am so so at reading music, i play a few instruments, trumpet, guitar, penny whistle, a little piano. I've studied some theory, but i wouldnt say it is my strong point.

Hmmmm.... probably first I would recommend a book such as "The Idiot's guide to Music Composition", which covers the basics. If you want to get into orchestration eventually, a good online resource is Principles of Orchestration On-line - northernsounds.com, although it is fairly advanced.

If you want to make classical/ambient/soundtracks that sound realistic, then I would recommend getting some sequencing software. The few that I would choose from are:

- REAPER : free to download and I think it only costs $40-50 to register. Very good sequencer with bang for buck, although the MIDI editing lacks a little.

- Cakewalk Sonar 6/7 : There's a web trial which you can download. The Home Studio versions are good if you are on a budget (I have Sonar Home Studio 6 XL and recommend it).

- Steinberg Cubase - I think it's still at version 4 which puts it maybe a bit behind Sonar, but many people still use this as a seqencer/DAW. I don't think there's a download trial for this one :(

- FL (Fruity Loops) Studio - This one aims more at the beginner electronic-style music market, but it is still pretty decent for editing MIDI tunes. Has a trial download.

After that, you might want to get some Sample Libraries. Most support the VST plugin format, which should work with all of the sequencers I mentioned above. You already mentioned EWQL. Another popular orchestral library is Garritan Personal Orchestra (GPO). As far as I know, those 2 are the most popular. There are others, varying from quite cheap to in the 1000s of dollars - depends how much you want to spend.

I'm new to sequencers/sample libraries as well, would I need an especially good computer to run these well? Because I dont have one of those.

I'm new to sequencers/sample libraries as well, would I need an especially good computer to run these well? Because I dont have one of those.

You don't need the latest and greatest computer to run a sequencer. But if you are using a sample library in a song with many tracks that use the samples, then it does help to have a fairly recent computer. What are the specs on yours?

Thank you both for your suggestions. I went to the local library, picked up Harmony, and some other good books on compisition and theory.

My next question is that of work flow? I am still a little confused on the process. Can you create decent music with a sequencer and a sound library alone? I read quite a few posts about people using Finale or other notation software, how does that fit in? I downloaded the demo version of Finale, and it seems great for exactly what'd i'd like to do. I am just unsure of how all these software pieces fit together to create a finished product.

Thank you very much again for your time and responces, this seems like a great community!

I'd recommend going over the first few chapters in Harmony; doing the exercises and so on (if you need someone to check them I'd be happy to look them over for you; PM me :thumbsup:) and then trying to write a short piece in finale, just for solo piano or something; nothing fancy and post it on here. I'm sure plenty of people will be willing to give you some advice :D

Enjoy!

My next question is that of work flow? I am still a little confused on the process. Can you create decent music with a sequencer and a sound library alone? I read quite a few posts about people using Finale or other notation software, how does that fit in? I downloaded the demo version of Finale, and it seems great for exactly what'd i'd like to do. I am just unsure of how all these software pieces fit together to create a finished product.

Yes, you can create decent music with just a sequencer and a sound library, although sometimes it might take a fair beat of tweaking tracks and articulations, etc. Finale is mainly a notation program - which means people use it for notating music, and then printing out scores for performance. It can still play back pieces, but perhaps less realistically and without as much control over the sounnds as a sequencer would have (although it is getting better). Sequencers are not as good at printing out scores (both Sonar and Cubase have staff-views though, but not REAPER or FL studio).

As for work flow... most sequencers have a piano-roll view which allows you to see and edit the notes on a grid matrix, which can be easier than editing on a staff. Or if you are using a notation program (finale or sibelius, etc.) then you usually input the notes onto a staff using the mouse. The other option that a lot of people resort to is using a MIDI controller keyboard - many people using either sequencers or notation programs use a controller keyboard to enter the notes, either in "real time" or a step at a time (step sequencing). Some people use both a sequencer AND a notation program. ie - write the piece in a sequencer and produce a demo, then export to a MIDI file, and import into finale/sibelius to notate and print out scores.

Oh, and another thing sequencers usually have is the ability to use VST plugins, which are either software synths or audio effects. Many are available for free on the internet (although there are commercial ones too). I am not so sure if finale or sibelius allow VST plugins...

I think one of the faster and easiest midi sequencers to use is FL Studio. I've used Pro Tools LE 7.3 to program midi tracks for composing and I find that simply having the ability to "right click" to delete midi notes, or being able to slide velocity settings on notes to give a track more human feel is well worth the price of FL Studio. It saves you a bunch of time programming feel into your midi. It's simply a great program and easy to use with sensible programming (your plug ins don't load until you use them vice Pro Tools LE that loads them ALL and sucks up valuable RAM). Another benefit to FL Studio is being able to duplicate patterns on the fly, which is very nice when you're composing a motive and need to add variation in a Virtual Instrument.

But I come from the school of thought that you should hear your ideas before you transcribe them. I rarely print out any scores for my stuff. I spend more time mixing/mastering the sounds and composing the piece. I suppose you could convert the midi into a good scoring program once the piece is completed.

You don't need the latest and greatest computer to run a sequencer. But if you are using a sample library in a song with many tracks that use the samples, then it does help to have a fairly recent computer. What are the specs on yours?

Umm... all I know is that it has 128MB RAM and a 37.2GB hard drive.

Umm... all I know is that it has 128MB RAM and a 37.2GB hard drive.

Hmmmm are you pulling my leg 920bpm?? I see you have uploaded music in the past including a Sibelius file. I really doubt the latest version of Sibelius can run on a computer with 128MB of RAM!! And with a name like "920bpm" you are probably a techno sequencer anyhow...

And if you're not pulling my leg, then I'm sorry.... And the answer to your question is that you probably need a computer with at least 256MB of memory to run most recent sequencers, although around 1 GB would be the average I'd say. Reaper though has minimum system requirements of 128MB of RAM - so maybe you could get away with it to begin with. Or there might be older shareware/freeware sequencers on the net somewhere - but they would have pretty low capabilities and probably lack the ability to load orchestral instruments.

Once you get into sample libraries it really helps to have a pretty decent computer - a sample library itself takes up several GB of hard drive space which would be a reasonable chunk of what you have. And it helps to have a lot of RAM too if you are playing/writing a piece with more than half a dozen parts/instruments.

Thanks guys. Yeah, i need to brush up on my theory before i tackle this Harmony book. In the mean time i really want to get acquainted with the software in tandem to brushing up my knowledge of theory.

I looked at Sonar, and it seemed very complicated, and i have heard good things about Cubase, i will have to look into it. So let me see if i got this correct. You get a sequencer, and i can get VST for it which will be of a specific instrument most likely. Then i use a piano-roll view to create the notes i want for it? Then use those recorded notes as samples, and off i go? Or is there something i am missing in the middle?

Thanks guys. Yeah, i need to brush up on my theory before i tackle this Harmony book. In the mean time i really want to get acquainted with the software in tandem to brushing up my knowledge of theory.

I looked at Sonar, and it seemed very complicated, and i have heard good things about Cubase, i will have to look into it. So let me see if i got this correct. You get a sequencer, and i can get VST for it which will be of a specific instrument most likely. Then i use a piano-roll view to create the notes i want for it?

VSTis come in a variety of flavors - some are only one instrument, while others have hundreds. Most have at least some knobs or controllers which let you shape the output sound. So you load up the VSTi, set your knobs how you want, and choose an instrument patch (for multi instrument plugins). Most sample libraries come with some sort of VST plugin to play the samples too.

Once you have set up the VSTi, you can create the notes using one of:

- piano roll

- staff view (if the sequencer has one)

- record notes using a MIDI controller keyboard

- you can usually record audio tracks directly from your sound card inputs as well (eg - from a guitar or microphone).

Then use those recorded notes as samples, and off i go? Or is there something i am missing in the middle?

Ummm, not exactly. The sequencer should allow you to play back the notes you enter in real time (using the VSTi) through your soundcard. When you want to make a .wav or .mp3 file of what you have written you usually choose an "Export" option from the menus.

As for Sonar being complicated... yes, it has a lot of features. Some I use all the time - others never. I would recommend trying the tutorials in the help file. As far as I know Cubase is just as complicated, just with a slightly different interface.

If you get FL Studio, you can enter your midi as patterns, duplicate and vary them as necessary, and associate them into any number of VST channels.

Hmmmm are you pulling my leg 920bpm?? I see you have uploaded music in the past including a Sibelius file. I really doubt the latest version of Sibelius can run on a computer with 128MB of RAM!! And with a name like "920bpm" you are probably a techno sequencer anyhow...

Not that amazing. I can run the almost fully-functional Finale 2008 Demo with SoftSynth on my computer which has 128MB RAM and serious virtual memory issues. I can run the latest Sibelius demo as well, they all work. They're slow and a pain, but they run fine. ;)

All I know is that CPU is MUCH more important than RAM. You can have all the RAM you want but you'll be like waiting hours when you have only 1 Ghz of CPU in the rendering process.

Not to mention when you are playbacking your composition in your sequencer, you'll keep hearing glitches and stops and your computer can crash in a minute.

I tried it myself I upgraded my RAM but it was equally slow, you can load more instruments okay, but it keeps glitching.

Also very important, if you have a bad computer: Cubase works better than FLstudio. The working interface of Cubase is much better than FLstudio. But you have to get used to it first. FLstudio is easier to start with as a beginner.

Hmmmm are you pulling my leg 920bpm?? I see you have uploaded music in the past including a Sibelius file. I really doubt the latest version of Sibelius can run on a computer with 128MB of RAM!! And with a name like "920bpm" you are probably a techno sequencer anyhow...

And if you're not pulling my leg, then I'm sorry.... And the answer to your question is that you probably need a computer with at least 256MB of memory to run most recent sequencers, although around 1 GB would be the average I'd say. Reaper though has minimum system requirements of 128MB of RAM - so maybe you could get away with it to begin with. Or there might be older shareware/freeware sequencers on the net somewhere - but they would have pretty low capabilities and probably lack the ability to load orchestral instruments.

Once you get into sample libraries it really helps to have a pretty decent computer - a sample library itself takes up several GB of hard drive space which would be a reasonable chunk of what you have. And it helps to have a lot of RAM too if you are playing/writing a piece with more than half a dozen parts/instruments.

My computer can actually run Sibelius 3 fine, though I guess I'll have to wait till a new computer before I start really getting into sequencing.

katchum, how many Ghz's should I go for to run sequencers and the like?

My computer can actually run Sibelius 3 fine, though I guess I'll have to wait till a new computer before I start really getting into sequencing.

katchum, how many Ghz's should I go for to run sequencers and the like?

I don't think Ghz is so important these days, but dual cores really helps supposedly. So tryy to get at least a dual core CPU running at 2Ghz. And although Windows Vista has been around almost a year, not all sequencing software works smoothly with it yet, so check before you buy software.