If I feel a teacher is necessary, am I ashamedly mediocre?

One friend of mine always boasted she learned the piano by herself. But, since the age of 5, everything I learned in music came from an instructor. Sometimes I feel split between feeling grateful that someone implanted a respect for music in me that would never come about otherwise, and the fact that, indeed, it never would have come about otherwise because I'm born devoid of natural musicality.... or something.

Anyway, just to substantiate this inner conflict, I even have to wonder: is a teacher so necessary to demonstrate technical skill?

Also, I observe that sometimes people who 'learn by themselves' are actually part of some community where their friends constantly name-drop composers and songs, so they have an access to what sheet music to practice, and how piano works in general. Otherwise a piano teacher is the only way to see into those technicalities.

In addition, as a college student, I feel a little bit reluctant to spend money on an instructor. And my practice is so inconsistent when the semesters begin, and homework piles up, and I have to go across campus to the practice rooms in the music department and so.... perhaps I have to relegate my piano hobby to after I graduate and suffer the prolonged agitation of listening to college peers showing off at the piano because they achieved a higher level during high school (a more routine season of life in my opinion) (I'm such a jealous person).... sigh.

sigh.

edit: oh uh, this post doesn't really fit in any category. General rant. Sorry... serious composers...

Well, to answer the question posed by the post's title, no.

Instructor is always a good thing,to learn by your self you need a bit of luck.

True.

I still feel I need an instructor to help me focus my compositional energies. Otherwise I catch myself taking shortcuts.

However, I've gotten much better since having a teacher, and soon, I think, I will be able to catch myself early enough that a teacher will not be necessary, though of course one is always helpful.

Nah, Life is one big learning experience. Everyone got to where they were by starting from zero. Some may have had an earlier start, but that doesn't discount the fact that they were once incapable of the said task.:D

I played MMORPGs in the past, and the oft quoted line there is;

"Every Pro was a noob before" :P

(MMORPGs are, say, games that put alot of people playing in the same enviroment together, online, yes, the proficient are named 'pros' while the starters are called 'noobs', generally)

No worries! Having a teacher is not being mediocre. No matter how hard your instructors teach you, you still have to put in effort of your own. It is of course possible to teach yourself, but you might have to put in more effort to accomplish the same standards.

Its just like having someone to guide u lessens the need for you to experiment and experiencing knocks and going down the wrong way by using wrong techniques, etc.

Trust me, a good teacher is worth his/her weight in gold. Or even more.;)

and, it is not whether you are talented. It is how willing you are to put effort into it. If you put your effort into it, nothing, is really quite impossible.

Underestimate not the power of your will. :)

Well, I'm sure your friend who taught herself piano probably plays like someone who taught themself how to play. Particularly if compared to someone who had a teacher for the same amount of time.

I find there's a certain snobbism associated with being "self taught" that is really quite unmerited. There is nothing fundamentally better about having learned something on your own isntead of having been taught. Generally, learning it on your own is rife with errors and sometimes dangerous bad habits.

The same can be said for the creative side of music (composition). Yes, many things about actual composition cannot actually BE taught, but imagine how much simpler life becomes when those things that CAN be taught, are?

Yes, there is quite a bit of snobbism about being "self-taught." It tends to come out in me. "is a teacher so necessary to demonstrate technical skill?" Here's me being an utter snob... but I'm self-taught in all band instruments I've been able to get my hands on, and I'm better than some of the people in band who are serious and take lessons. However, it's not whether you're self-taught or not... it's HOW serious you are and HOW willing you are to learn and learn RIGHT, and whether you can tell when you're not getting the sound you WANT. I happen to have quite a drive for learning from technical rights and wrongs in instrument-playing through teaching myself and I happen to have a good ear and use it. What I do is listen to myself and try to sound how I want. I hear people saying playing any instrument is not natural. It can be. If you work on sounding the way you want, you'll eventually get it right. If you have a teacher you tend to forget this and just do what he says and struggle with the same technical difficulties without thinking about the music. However... a GOOD teacher will be able to spot something that is wrong and fix it much earlier than YOU could. If you could get a teacher, I would recommend it. Just make absolutely sure it is somebody you trust.

What I say really applies strongly to learning wind instruments especially. For piano, it is a little different. You press a key hard enough and the hammer will be moved far enough that it might, through inertia, strike the string and set it into vibration. That's all there is to doing it. Pressing keys. Unfortunately, if you don't use the right technique, you might NOT be able to sound the way you want. Maybe you're not curving enough or your wrist is too low or high or you're not using the weight of your body instead of the muscles of you fingers and arm. Maybe you are too tense. All those things in piano-playing can factor in without you realising it. What a teacher can do is make you aware of all these aspects and what to do with them. It's up to YOU to control them CORRECTLY.

:cool: yeah

I like having my teacher just because its a second pair of eyes and ears and perfessional ones at that.

It's certainly a delight to be able to teach oneself to do something but it certainly is of very high value to have someone teach you or guide you.

One thing that is very important about having a teacher is that of instantaneous feedback. You can easily correct mistakes, unlike teaching yourself where you do have the tendency of developing bad habits and realizing mistakes much later. You see, teachers/instructors have "been there" so to speak. They have tried things for themselves and they know (most of the time) what works and what doesn't so those who need a teacher don't have to short change themselves as being mediocre.

About the concept of being snobbishm I think "snobbism" works both ways. There's certainly a snobbish air with regard to autodidact people (I'm hugely self-taught by the way) and there is also a snobbism among those who are formally educated, those who have master-to-apprentice lineages, or those who have degrees.

For one thing, I think having a teacher has demonstrable advantages such as getting immediate feedback and having more avenues to get your work out instead of just sweating it out on your own.

All in all, it somehow boils down to what works best for you in terms of learning. For some people, the freedom found in teaching oneself is a delight because it does not put any pressure on them by following a rigid structure. For others, however, having a teacher is much more effective because the structure keeps them secured into a definite learning path. If you're really serious about it, I think learning things on your own and having a teacher will work. :toothygrin:

Thanks for the responses.

Well, I definitely feel like I just need to see the teacher's fingers demonstrate how trills, etc are done. I need examples at least ^_^

I tend to think being "self taught" isn't shutting everyone out, but instead listening to everyone and learning from all available sources. You can't pull out information from thin air, you have to get it from somewhere. Either you get it from trial an error or you get it from books, people, etc. I tend to think both are great combined.

If you have the proper materials/resources you can teach yourself almost anything. If someone competent offers to help you (or you seek their help), that's also great. But independence in learning is something I think is valuable. And, it IS difference learning something through trial, error, observation and experimentation than having it handed to you on a silver platter.

But mileage may vary. I think learning methods are valid so long as actual learning goes on. As for "but it's faster and better to---" that's very relative. I think it's hard to define what "self taught" is anyways, since if you're looking up any sources of information made by other people, etc you're learning from others indirectly. So, it be just like having "a teacher", except that it's more like having a world of teachers which can be confusing and become a problem depending on the subject. Or, it can be amazing and eye-opening. :>

I'll speak from my experiences, for I'm doing both. With bass i'm completely self-taught. I can easily write "galloping" triplets, walking bass, a polyphonic bassilne to accompany the guitar part and such, but I don't really understand the theory behind it. I never took the time to practice the scales and the modes and theory wise I don't know too much about my bass. So shredding is great and all, but my buddy who has played guitar for 7 years now has had a teacher and i have to use him as a reference =).

Piano on the other hand, i'm going to get a tutor for. It allows me to learn all the basic theory I missed,and will help me in composing/performing with both instruments in the long run. When you're "self-taught" i find it takes more time to learn things unless you're extremely devoted, and there are things you can easily overlook that'll come to bite you in the donkey later.

So, it be just like having "a teacher", except that it's more like having a world of teachers which can be confusing and become a problem depending on the subject. Or, it can be amazing and eye-opening. :>

In essence, it's less like having everything "handed to you on a silver platter" and more like having a whole sm

I believe that everyone is self-taught. I believe there is a distinction to be made between learning and being taught, and I think that composition is mostly learned, and not taught. For crying out loud, this is unbelievably close-minded, to treat everything, especially vague topics such as knowledge, in terms of 0 and 1. Learning is not something that either is or isn't. If you have a teacher, it doesn't mean you can't go and look for new music on your own, or don't go to any concerts your teacher doesn't recommend, or not buy any CDs because your teacher doesn't have them. A teacher is a source of knowledge, just like books, music and scores. It is, however, a source of empirical knowledge which he/she has accumulated through the years, and has been shaped through his/her experiences, the books he/she has read, the music he/she has listened, and the music he/she has written. There's a lot of things to learn from people who've been there, done that, even if they can't just write it down so you can learn it by heart next day and be able to write it in an exam. This is the kind of knowledge we get from teachers that we can't get from books.

That's why I think a teacher is a valuable aid to anything in life - because you will gain a lot of if you learn from other peoples' mistakes and their negative/positive experiences. A good composition teacher won't try to shape the composition student into a copy of himself, but rather help him/her to think about composition and to approach composition in an individual way (although direct or indirect influence will always be apparent, since most of what we are is our experiences and our ability to experience them and comprehend them).

And personal experience is of course the most valuable tool. You can read all about Feldman's music and life, or his writings, but you won't be able to say a single thing about how his music sounds like. Still, studying with a teacher shouldn't stop you from going and discovering things on your own - if so, it's bad teaching.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

-Chinese proverb

The function of education is to teach one to think intensively and to think critically. Intelligence plus character, that is the goal of true education.-Martin Luther King, Jr.

I wonder if it's both or maybe cyclical.

I think at a high school and certainly college level it's critical to have a teacher. You're learning about the tools of the trade so to speak.

I think there's a period after school that one can make great strides if left on his/her own. It's a chance to assimilate these tools and make them your own.

Years later, I'm at a point where I'd really value the input of a teacher. I still study and listen on my own and certainly pick up things, but I'm at a point that I need some guidance to further my progress.

This has been my experience.

Steve Winkler

Absolutely not. Teachers are valuable all throughout life.

At the very least, a teacher someone who you can exchange ideas with. I think the most brilliant people find having a person they can do that with to be critical.

At the very least, a teacher someone who you can exchange ideas with. I think the most brilliant people find having a person they can do that with to be critical.

Seconded, important point, that.

quick question. Some people here mention compositional mentors/teachers. I use my dad who has a BA in music and is a composer. However, I don't take his words as seriously as other peoples though it is nice to have a conversation. How do you come accross such people? DO you just use your private instrumental teachers?

quick question. Some people here mention compositional mentors/teachers. I use my dad who has a BA in music and is a composer. However, I don't take his words as seriously as other peoples though it is nice to have a conversation. How do you come accross such people? DO you just use your private instrumental teachers?

Not necessarily. There are easily dozens of theory/composition teachers around your town... Instrumental teachers might be able to do both performance and composition lessons, or will at least be able to suggest someone who can teach composition.

Ask around...

At the very least, a teacher someone who you can exchange ideas with. I think the most brilliant people find having a person they can do that with to be critical.

I think this is a great point. The thought occured to me today that an instructor probably takes on a different meaning or role as one progresses.

I'm certainly not at that point, but I'm thinking of the various schools that we read about in music history. The Mighty 5, Les Six, etc. These and other relationships through history were undoubtedly people who could keep each other focused and on track so to speak.

I think time with and without an instructor is valuable. As I noted earlier I'm without an instructor and am somewhat at a standstill creatively; I feel like I've lost my way in a manner of speaking. That's what motivates me to search out someone who can be instructively critical.

Steve Winkler

You can email University professors and ask for lessons. You can hunt down a professional composer and do the same. Some are listed online/newspaper, others are sly bastards.

You know, people who claim they are self taught in effect really aren't. No man is an island. When somone learns an instrument with out an instructor chances are they are mimicking things, techniques, styles from what they hear live or on the radio, etc. Same goes with composing. I think self taught and tutored people eventually end up in the same place.

I think self taught and tutored people eventually end up in the same place.

Its the whole going to office hours relationship. People who come to help during my office hours tend to do better than those who don't.