somnus corvidae - for solo Oboe and Orchestra

Hi all, here's the orchestration of my piece "somnus corvidae for solo Oboe and Piano". (click the link for the Oboe/Piano version)

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I'll post a more detailed blow-by-blow tomorrow, but for the most part all the info from the other thread applies equally to this orchestration.

Possible performance in the future! *crosses fingers*

Well, this is awesome, much like the original version. :D

I have but one thing to raise: the oboe cadenza in the middle sounds very isolated given the total length of the work. I can't help but worry the audience might wonder where the rest of the players had got to.

But aside from that, very impressive indeed. Best of luck obtaining that live performance! :)

Okay, since I've already described the piece as a whole in the original Oboe/Piano version thread, I'll just touch on issues peculiar to the Oboe/Orchestra version here.

The orchestration for the work is as follows:

Piccolo (Flute III)

Flutes I & II

Oboes I & II

Bb Clarinets I & II

Bb Bass Clarinet

Bassoons I & II

Horns in F I, II, III, & IV

Trumpets in C I, II, & III

Trombones I & II

Bass Trombone

Tuba

Timpani (4 drums)

3 Percussion (Percussion I: vibraphone and xylophone, Percussion II: snare drum, suspended cymbal, and wood block, Percussion III: bass drum, crash cymbals, and castanets)

solo Oboe

Strings (1st & 2nd Violins, Violas, Cellos, and Double Basses)

short-hand: 3-2-3-2, 4-3-3-1, 1-3, solo Oboe, strings.

The first major problem with transcribing the work from piano to orchestra was keeping enough auditory space to be able to hear the oboe (unfortunately, a computer rendering is not going to effectively present the actual acoustic presence, but I'm sure we're all aware of that). To that effect, I've kept background figures in the first part of the work restricted to the original piano lines and did minimal thickening to the harmony, except in places where the oboe is tacet. I believe that it is effective and tracks the existing piano part well without being overbearing.

On the entrance of the second, lyrical theme, I've used strings and woodwinds to keep balance issues between the solo and ensemble to a minimum, with the occasional harmonic background provided by the horns/low brass.

The oboe 'cadenza' has been greatly expanded from the original. I wrote this new material with the intent of creating a similar effect to what Copland uses in his Concerto for Clarinet; an extended solo passage to show off the solo instrument. A live performer will make this section particularly interesting (which is unfortunately difficult to do with a computer rendering), being able to bring the most out of the "Impish" and "Raucous" sections. The computer rendering is "too pretty" in sections, compared to my actual intent.

The orchestration of the piano solo section after the cadenza is more exciting due to the tone colors and sharp, percussive effects available, along with a much greater sound mass. The following return to the lyrical section is very lush with a cushion of soft brass, insubstantially ethereal woodwinds, string artificial harmonics, and a fleshed-out oboe solo (now a trio). This builds to the first climactic peak, with the upper woodwinds providing additional support to the solo oboe in the loudest section.

This retreats to the quiet interlude, which then builds to the full ensemble tutti, featuring the trumpets on the original oboe line, and the horns/cello on the countermelody. The celli (high on their most exciting and commanding A-string) take over the main theme (appassionato) with the violas supporting. On the re-entry of the solo oboe, the ensemble thins out gradually, then subito piano with the strings and minimal woodwind accompaniment to the lyrical oboe line, which builds and retreats, then builds again to the final tutti. Again, at this point the oboe is supported by the upper woodwinds for clarity and volume.

In the final phrase, the orchestra thins from tutti pizzicato strings to soli strings, and the work ends with a full tutti stinger.

One of the other major issues transcribing the work was the issue of pauses. In both versions, the pauses are important to break up the line and create a disjointed flow. For the oboe/piano version, it sounds more natural to just have empty space, but in the orchestral version, the percussion were used to provide contrast instead. There is still empty space, but less of it due to the percussion fills, which give those passages more forward, kinetic motion.

I'm very happy with the work, and I can't wait to be able to have it premiered!

UPDATE 5/19/09: I've incorporated this into a larger work as the third and final movement, with some updates and additional material. I am expanding this slightly in several ways - I've slightly enlarged the Orchestra by adding both a Contrabassoon part and a Harp, as well as having the Oboe II also double on English Horn. I've fleshed out many passages with additional material, made the cadenza more interactive while keeping its basic character intact, and have elongated certain sections to improve pacing.

Once I've finished the entire work, I'll close this thread and direct you to the new piece. Thanks as always for your comments and listening!

Flint -

I have to say excellent piece and I hope it gets performed soon. I do have reservations about the oboe cadenza despite your arguement for the very very spare orchestral textures (or none at all). I think what may help is NOT to make some of the sequences obvious toward the end of the solo. I do love the melodic line and how you break it up. I also agree the soloist will make it much more interesting. Yet again, just a little bit of commentary from the orchestra toward the end of the solo would help make the sequential patterns seem more a part of the solo rather than a sparse bridge.

Nevertheless, as you are very happy with the piece again I wish you luck with getting it performed. I have to look for the Copland Concerto you speak of -- maybe listening to that I'll have a better understanding of your intentions. Any recordings you recommend of that piece?

Overall, excellent work flint. I hope you will be able to post the live performance.

The Benny Goodman recording of Copland's Concerto for Clarinet is the standard.

HA! It's amazing how even after staring at a score for weeks, one can still find errors. Uploaded revised and correct score; fixed link.

Well, my favourite section was in fact the cadenza. I didn't feel it was too long, and it seemed to sum up the mood and feel of the work nicely. The percussion really helps the disjointedness, and adds a really important element to this piece. The pizz string sections were another favourite, under the solo oboe. Really nice work

This is a great piece, I really enjoyed it, thank you. I love the way you've written for the oboe: all the rolling, relaxedly playful lines really create a beautifully pastoral effect. I had absolutely no trouble imagining the image that this piece's name suggests, the work is very very evocative and descriptive. I completely understand what you mean with the cadenza (I know the Copland Concerto quite well), though, and this is a small point, if it were me I would have wanted a tiny bit of interaction with the orchestra at some point 3/4 of the way through (I'll use bar numbers tomorrow), because it did seem a tiny bit long in the context of the whole piece. Not necessarily a bad thing though! Overall I love this, can't wait to hear a recording, lucky you to get one. :P

Thanks for zephyr and Terve for your comments!

I completely understand what you mean with the cadenza...if it were me I would have wanted a tiny bit of interaction with the orchestra at some point 3/4 of the way through

When I was re-writing the cadenza I did do some internal fighting as to whether I really wanted any accompaniment in there. I did some sketches, but in the end I realized that it only made me want to write even more in the cadenza, which stretched it past a reasonable breaking point and gave it a character that I was not looking for. Not that I disliked the idea; it was more that it wasn't what I wanted at this time.

Most likely I will incorporate that type of interaction when I get down to writing an actual concerto. (soon?)

Wow, I loved the space, the textures and the wonderful "Americana" feeling of it. It is so much like the music I'd like to write and fail miserably. If you don't mind, I would like to keep of copy of the score and midi to explore it more indepth as to what you're doing to accomplish the sound.

Really lovely... !!!

Flint, I haven't commented on much of your music (although I've listened to a lot of it), but I thought I'd throw in a couple of words for this splendid work. First of all, I LOVE both the original and the orchestration's sense of humor. The dissonant piano interludes contrasting with the beautiful oboe lines and lush harmonies is a really unique mix I want to hear more of! But that brings me to my main point:

I feel the oboe cadenza (in it's current elongated state) makes the piece feel out of proportion. You mentioned the long cadenza in the Copland Clarinet Concerto, but that piece is 15-20 minutes long. I'm not sure on the length of the cadenza itself, but with so much music around it, it always feels quite right to me. My overall suggestion for your piece stems from A. solving the crisis of proportion (which is always important in form and structure in a work) and B. me wanting to hear more and more of your very creative music. My suggestion for you is to expand, expand, expand! All of the orchestral interludes could be stretched out and developed more, and all of the lyrical oboe lines could be longer and more dynamic. Perhaps add another theme - make it a sort of mish-mash of ideas, almost like a 3-movement concerto all mixed together into one 15 minute gem!

I don't know... maybe that's just the way I would do it! But it might be something interesting to think about, no? Anyway, whatever you decide to do with it, just know that I really enjoy this piece and I hope to hear a recorded performance of it as well! Keep up the good work.

and P.S. : Your orchestration, as always, is terrific!

Thanks for the kind words, oingo and speakingmusic!

Oingo, just to pick your brain... if this were, say, a three (or four) movement work (with this as the first or last movement), would you feel that the proportion issue would be better regarding the cadenza?

Very nice flint-wwrr. I like this piece very much. The length of the cadenza doesn't bother me. As someone suggested it might be nice for some sort of interaction with the orchestra. In my opinion I heard something (e.g. pizzicato strings) during the "Impish" portion. Then maybe the cadenza continuing w/o accompaniment.

Even if you leave it the way it is it's a great piece.

Steve Winkler

Thanks for the kind words, oingo and speakingmusic!

Oingo, just to pick your brain... if this were, say, a three (or four) movement work (with this as the first or last movement), would you feel that the proportion issue would be better regarding the cadenza?

Yeah, that would definitely work. It would be an interesting change in structure, having the cadenza almost be like a 'trope' or response to the music before it. You could repeat that idea with the other movements, as well. Do you have any ideas for the other movements yet?

Well, the whole concept of the piece when I was first conceiving it was for this to be an oboe concerto. Even the folder on my hard drive was titled "oboe concerto" (one of the rare times where the title was the last thing decided for one of my pieces). As I started writing and once I got several minutes onto the page, however, I changed the concept to just be a single movement self-contained piece.

I would not be averse to incorporating this as a movement (probably final movement) of a full-fledged concerto, but I'd have to give it some thought before embarking on such a project.

I admit I'd love to expand some of the themes I created and use them in other movements! :)

Very good!

I don't know which sound module did you use, but working with ewql [the only one i know and use] could improve the overall "look"(that in any case, is above my standard!), especially for the string section, that is too flat.

But... if you have a real orchestra, well ... ;)

You know, I've never listened to any of your music before, shame on me. So I thought I'd embark on the project of listening to everything or as much as I can and commenting on it, even if I don't have much to say.

How is this project coming along? I noticed in your sig it says you're done with the first movement, haven't really done the second, and... this is the third and final movement in your grand scheme of all things? My initial impression of this piece was sort of a "cute" one. It seems... silly in character to me. I've never heard the Copland, so can't compare. I haven't listened to your piano version either. I assume you'll make piano transcriptions of the other movements to keep the work as a whole more accessible, unless of course... you are writing piano versions first and then orchestrating, as happened with this piece/movement. As an independent work, I thought it was on the short side. Certainly room for expansion, perhaps new material that is really MEANT for the orchestra, rather than a transcription with little adages here and there. I felt the cadenza was long enough, and not too long - I felt that it fit within the piece and preserved a sense of balance. As a final movement to a whole concerto, my opinion might still be that it's on the short side of things, but I'll really leave that judgement until I've heard the "completed" work. ;)

Hi James, thanks for the listen. This actually will give me a chance to update what's happening with the piece, so thank you!

How is this project coming along? I noticed in your sig it says you're done with the first movement, haven't really done the second, and... this is the third and final movement in your grand scheme of all things?...

...As an independent work, I thought it was on the short side. Certainly room for expansion, perhaps new material that is really MEANT for the orchestra, rather than a transcription with little adages here and there. I felt the cadenza was long enough, and not too long - I felt that it fit within the piece and preserved a sense of balance. As a final movement to a whole concerto, my opinion might still be that it's on the short side of things, but I'll really leave that judgement until I've heard the "completed" work.

So far I have written and completed the entire first movement (not posted), I've started the second movement, and this piece is the basis for the third movement. I've already sketched and plotted some changes to this movement to flesh it out more and make it more of an 'orchestral' piece. These changes will probably add at least an additional 2-3 minutes or so - though if I'm inspired, I may expand it further. Each time I listen, I do so with the intent on coming up with additional material, or clarifying the existing material.

My initial impression of this piece was sort of a "cute" one. It seems... silly in character to me.

This is exactly what I've been shooting for - this work is meant to be rather light and playful (or, the buzzword for this... "jaunty"). The first movement is also somewhat light, while the second movement will be much less so.

I assume you'll make piano transcriptions of the other movements to keep the work as a whole more accessible, unless of course... you are writing piano versions first and then orchestrating, as happened with this piece/movement.

Yes, I will be transcribing the entire work for piano and oboe once it is complete. It was highly unusual for me to write the piano/oboe version first. I am very much looking forward to making changes in the piano/oboe version of this movement - but I will wait on that until I am satisfied that the piece is 'complete'.

I have listened to all of your works. In fact I was the first one here at YC to ever comment on one of your pieces. But I think I told you that already.

This was a fun little piece and was very entertaining.

Well done

Ron